I don't recall the exact numbers on my 170+p, but useful load is less than 700 lbs. Might be closer to 650 after putting on big tires. I never looked at many stock 170's, but I'd be very surprised if any of them actually had 800 lbs useful load.

I investigated some of the weight reduction measures denalipilot mentions, and I could probably shave close to a hundred pounds if I really wanted to. But some of those heavy items are really nice to have...bigger tires, stouter axels, pull handles, V-brace, stol kit, extended baggage, P-ponk gear boxes, etc..

Also, the cost of some of those upgrades is truly fantastic. If a 700 lb useful load isn't sufficient I think you'd be better off looking at a different airplane altogether.

Hammer wrote:Also, the cost of some of those upgrades is truly fantastic. If a 700 lb useful load isn't sufficient I think you'd be better off looking at a different airplane altogether.

That's the truth. And we didn't even delve into Titanium yet.

-DP

denalipilot wrote:

Hammer wrote:Also, the cost of some of those upgrades is truly fantastic. If a 700 lb useful load isn't sufficient I think you'd be better off looking at a different airplane altogether.

That's the truth. And we didn't even delve into Titanium yet.

-DP

Haha...forgot about that option.

$16,000 spring gear

$1,350 axels

$150 shims

Crazy if you don't!

I have a buddy looking to upgrade his 170 to a 160hp. A out of the box 160 hp upgrade on a 170 is over fifty grand more like sixty when you get it all done so don't buy a 170 to modify in the future. I you just want a plane to fly a 170 of any variation is fine. If you intend to make money with the plane move on. Also read up on what is needed as far as engine time/overhaul if you plan on using the plane for income.
DENNY

Hammer wrote:I don't recall the exact numbers on my 170+p, but useful load is less than 700 lbs. Might be closer to 650 after putting on big tires. I never looked at many stock 170's, but I'd be very surprised if any of them actually had 800 lbs useful load.

I investigated some of the weight reduction measures denalipilot mentions, and I could probably shave close to a hundred pounds if I really wanted to. But some of those heavy items are really nice to have...bigger tires, stouter axels, pull handles, V-brace, stol kit, extended baggage, P-ponk gear boxes, etc..

Also, the cost of some of those upgrades is truly fantastic. If a 700 lb useful load isn't sufficient I think you'd be better off looking at a different airplane altogether.

Hammer,

So, your Cessna 170B weighs over 1500 lbs? That seems pretty high to me, even with big tires.

MTV

Hammer wrote:

denalipilot wrote:

Hammer wrote:Also, the cost of some of those upgrades is truly fantastic. If a 700 lb useful load isn't sufficient I think you'd be better off looking at a different airplane altogether.

That's the truth. And we didn't even delve into Titanium yet.

-DP

Haha...forgot about that option.

$16,000 spring gear

$1,350 axels

$150 shims

Crazy if you don't!

Well, there's like a $1200 core credit on the old gear. Almost pays for itself if you squint at it right while facing the sun. Not that I've looked into it or anything.

DENNY wrote:I have a buddy looking to upgrade his 170 to a 160hp. A out of the box 160 hp upgrade on a 170 is over fifty grand more like sixty when you get it all done so don't buy a 170 to modify in the future. I you just want a plane to fly a 170 of any variation is fine. If you intend to make money with the plane move on. Also read up on what is needed as far as engine time/overhaul if you plan on using the plane for income.
DENNY

Theres a 160hp conversion? Which engine, 0-320? Didnt know that was an option...

My stripped down 170B with the stock c-145, 80/42 prop, Horton STOL, 8:50x6 tires and no back seat weighs 1,328lbs and a useful load of 872lbs.

Looking at the internet, the weight difference between the Continental C-145 and the Lycoming 0-360 is pretty much a wash and would vary some, but not much, depending on the type of accessories. I wouldn't be too surprised if the metal fixed props weigh very close to the composite constant speed props when you also consider the govenor, controls and gage.

I can't see where the 180hp upgrade, in it's self, has much impact on empty weight.

SkyLarkin wrote:My stripped down 170B with the stock c-145, 80/42 prop, Horton STOL, 8:50x6 tires and no back seat weighs 1,328lbs and a useful load of 872lbs.

Looking at the internet, the weight difference between the Continental C-145 and the Lycoming 0-360 is pretty much a wash and would vary some, but not much, depending on the type of accessories. I wouldn't be too surprised if the metal fixed props weigh very close to the composite constant speed props when you also consider the govenor, controls and gage.

I can't see where the 180hp upgrade, in it's self, has much impact on empty weight.

It shouldn’t. But sometimes it’s a little hard to figure out where the pork is.

As to converting a 170 to an O 320 (160 HP engine), why in the world would you even consider that?? An O-360 weighs almost the same as the 320, costs about the same, has buckets more power, and if you’re chunking that much $$$ into a plane, why tube the resale value? A 170 with O 320 isn’t going to have the resale value or potential of one with an O 360.

If you’re going that far underwater on an airplane, at least do it right.

MTV

What MTV said, an 0-2320 is far to much effort for too little gain. Plus on a full disclosure note I'm an unabashed Conti fan so for the effort it would be a six banger for me. With that said I do feel that if there was both a legal and reliable means to achieve 160 HP out of the original 0-300 there would be reasonable market and it would serve my purposes adequately.

Mapleflt wrote:What MTV said, an 0-2320 is far to much effort for too little gain. Plus on a full disclosure note I'm an unabashed Conti fan so for the effort it would be a six banger for me. With that said I do feel that if there was both a legal and reliable means to achieve 160 HP out of the original 0-300 there would be reasonable market and it would serve my purposes adequately.

I agree. I've just never heard of a 160hp conversion hence my question. Personally I love the Franklin 220 on the 170s. Pulls like a rocket ship. An IO-360 conti would also be sweet... but back to the regularly scheduled programming.

Having flown and taught in most all 20th Century trainers, I find all well designed and capable backcountry type missions. Historically, they performed those missions well.

You are correct, I'm not aware of an "approved" means by which to achieve 160 hp form the 0-300 unfortunately

My bad 180hp 0360 and 160hp 0320
DENNY

So now that the idea has been floated, what does the Franklin upgrade look like, where can one do a little further research on the concept

SkyLarkin wrote:My stripped down 170B with the stock c-145, 80/42 prop, Horton STOL, 8:50x6 tires and no back seat weighs 1,328lbs and a useful load of 872lbs.
Looking at the internet, the weight difference between the Continental C-145 and the Lycoming 0-360 is pretty much a wash ...

My old ragwing 170 weighed about the same.
360 lyc isnt much heavier, in itself,
But dont forget to figure in a heavy c/s prop.
And tge 180 gear legs.
And the baggage door / extended baggage.
And the bushwheels or 29x10's,
and the baby bw.
And the sportsman cuff.
Etc etc.
Mid to high 1400's is not unbelievable imho.

My stripped down 170 weighed 1280 lbs on scales (920 lbs useful) with all this installed:
0-300D 145hp
80/41 prop
OWL stol
180 gear
fat tailwheel baby bw
double puck brakes
steel axles
float kit
selkirk extended baggage
8.50 tires
V-brace
pull handles- BAS
one piece windshield
stripped mesh rear bench seat- stock
bare minimum instruments and thin foam on the interior
stripped exterior no paint
lightweight battery- odyssey
lightweight alternator- plane power
lightweight starter- skytec
fuel flow- JPI fs450
tach- EI r1 (electric tach and hour meter)

I then added:
BAS shoulder harnesses
door stewards
PPONK gearbox beef up
reinforcement skins on outer gearbox- like 180
29" Bushwheels

to the tune of about 45 lbs so it's now 1325 lbs empty with 875 lbs useful.

It carries 4 adults and full fuel and gets off in under 1000 feet- with a 6 pack and a toothbrush for cargo
It easily carries 3 adults on backcountry strips with only 800 feet usable and nothing to clear.
It's carried many a moose out of the field, but you can't put the whole moose in till you get to the big strip.
I wish I could get off in 500' with full gross and I wish I could cruise at 135 mph...
There's a lot of good info on here about how these things perform. I'm always impressed with mine.

Wow, that's impressive Alaskan Tin Can

Mapleflt wrote:So now that the idea has been floated, what does the Franklin upgrade look like, where can one do a little further research on the concept

It looks good. No bubbles in the cowling. Pulls very hard.
http://www.franklinengines.com/cessna.cfm

Does it fit under the original stock cowling ?