I understand, The pilot was getting a checkout in new to him airplane in S Africa.
Right seat had flown the plane all the way to, S Africa.
Right seat published the video especially for others to observe and learn. Well done right seat.
I have watched other cockpit camera groundloops where one can see the windsock, all the guages (including fuel) and the control inputs. Excellent way to study. Well done GoPro and Contour etc.
No, it was'nt me but could be.
I have been known to demonstrate/teach antigroundlooping by allowing learner to get in too far, then saving the day.
It is a good way to get attention so the learner realizes that correct inputs are important, not just something to talk about.

maules.com wrote:I have been known to demonstrate/teach antigroundlooping by allowing learner to get in too far, then saving the day.
It is a good way to get attention so the learner realizes that correct inputs are important, not just something to talk about.

Damn Jeremy, remind me never have you show me how to not do something??!!

Kind a like Mister Orin Hudson when he told me how to get a Bonanza to perform like a 206!
Then he said Damit now don't go out and kill your self?? Kinda made me think about what he told me!!

There have been MANY a day I was thankful for not having a video camera (or witness) to some of my landings...

Gump

GumpAir wrote:There have been MANY a day I was thankful for not having a video camera (or witness) to some of my landings...

Gump

Gump, I agree, I think I've got about 6 that I could have videod!!

Too much glass on the panel..all of that fancy stuff won't help you land any better.

George, one can over ride most of the learners actions by knowing ahead what's going to happen,.... except the one action where the learner might panic and jam on the brakes. That'd be exciting.

I also applaud the right seater. One he got the guy to slow down enough that the airplane wasn't destroyed. Two he allowed him to learn from his mistakes. Insurance and cost of aircraft too much preclude any emphasis on pilot training. The result is pilots who have no self confidence. Hopefully, this guy will begin to understand dynamic proactive rudder control for longitudinal alignment and aileron control only for drift control. I always jammed the control wheel with my thumb. When the student hit the stop (my thumb) he would look over. I would then say, "Lock the wing with aileron, walk the rudder dynamically each side of center continuously. Don't wait until the nose goes wrong and then react. Make the nose go wrong, with rudder, this way and then that way and then this way, etc. This way we stay ahead of the aircraft.

maules.com wrote:It is a good way to get attention so the learner realizes that correct inputs are important, not just something to talk about.

As a pilot with low tailwheel time, it's the sheer dread of damaging an aeroplane that keeps me serious and my feet working overtime on the ground. I tense up my legs on landing, for fear of the aircraft getting ahead of me, I stay tense and very proactive on the pedals (without over-controlling, most of the time) until the plane pulls up. Short finals/touchdown is not my best time to relax.

Moved to another post

As one who is nothing better than a crappy tail dragger pilot, my critique has to be limited to what I saw in basic airplane control. Gusty crosswinds take better, quicker footwork, and a better understanding of the use of ailerons to get over the runway and rudder to align with the runway axis. While he might not have hit the weeds in a nose-dragger, he very well might have, as little control as he seemed to have at touchdown. Of course, a B-52 sized approach leg didn't help him any.

Cary

Cary wrote: Of course, a B-52 sized approach leg didn't help him any.

Cary

You mean maybe a circle approach to the end of the runway??

No, I was thinking of the 8 mile final.

Cary

I mentioned this on the MaulePilots board but I believe it bears repeating...especially the low, slow, and cross controlled part.

Without trying to throw rocks....

- From base leg through the ground loop the ball remained at various degrees of outside to the right...
- Low airspeed on final that at times hits the stall warning...added to the yaw attitude mentioned above becomes a very dangerous scenario especially in gusty conditions. Yaw + Stall = SPIN
- it appears that the throttle was at nearly idle for most of the trip down final which aggravated the low airspeed scenario on a gusty day.
- I did not notice anyone reaching for flaps as I was paying attention to the ball and airspeed...my personal preference is more wind = less flaps, but each pilot is different and should use whichever setting he is most proficient / comfortable...whatever it takes to keep her straight.
- It appears that once the tail was down the aileron correction for the crosswind was neutralized which appears to coincide with the beginning of the loop…was the rudder correction also subconsciously relaxed as well?

It appears that while the pilot had his hands full keeping directional control down final he did have the nose pointed down the runway with his relative motion heading down the runway as well when the rubber hit the road. While we can nitpick the approach for improvement, I don’t think it was the proximate cause of the ground loop. I believe the groundloop was caused simply by the relaxation of the crosswind correction controls just long enough and at the wrong point in the deceleration cone of control to allow the tail to move outside of the range of correction. It is easy to make this “mistake” of relaxing too early, especially after a taxing approach with gusty winds…a good lesson for all of us to learn from…fly it till it’s tied down. It only takes a second for a gust of wind to get the tail moving or pick up a wing and we are along for the ride.

Thanks to the poster who uploaded the video for us all to learn from.

He was bracketing his directed course (centerline if available) with coordinated turns all the way down the long final. He was not managing drift with aileron only and longitudinal alignment with rudder only. Crosswind landing is an uncoordinated maneuver. The aileron must be used in a static reactive way to counter whatever drift shows up. The rudder must be used in a dynamic proactive way to bracket the centerline or directed course. Static reactive aileron and dynamic proactive rudder cannot be coordinated.

For those who use the crab to very short final and then side slip into the wind, the wing should be held level with static reactive aileron. The rudder is used to dynamically and proactively direct our butts down the centerline or directed course. It would be like putting a grease pencil dot on the right front windscreen in a left crosswind. We still have an uncoordinated maneuver.

This pilot was doing a fine job of using coordinated turns to stay lined up with the landing zone. Coordinated turns on final mess up any landing, with or without a crosswind. We need to lock the wing level or into the bank needed to manage drift (rub our tummy) and dynamically and proactively walk the rudder to bracket the centerline or our directed course (pat our head.)

contactflying wrote:He was bracketing his directed course (centerline if available) with coordinated turns all the way down the long final. He was not managing drift with aileron only and longitudinal alignment with rudder only. Crosswind landing is an uncoordinated maneuver. The aileron must be used in a static reactive way to counter whatever drift shows up. The rudder must be used in a dynamic proactive way to bracket the centerline or directed course. Static reactive aileron and dynamic proactive rudder cannot be coordinated.

No argument there, but when adding in the slow speed element (stall horn) cross control can become a dangerous scenario.

As a very low time Maule pilot about to fly my new MX7-180 all the way across the country, this puckers me. My head rub/tummy pat routine is far from perfected, but I am making steady progress. Hopefully my progress will stay 1 step ahead of the conditions that could really bite me. I'll be extraordinarily cautious about the conditions I take off in, but things can change once you're in the air, particularly on long X/C flights. I keep reciting the mantra that ailerons are for drift correction and rudder is for longitudinal control, but my muscle memory isn't locked into that meme yet. My feet do stay busy on the approach, making very small rudder dance steps to keep a feel for rudder effectiveness as I descend on final, but I do pucker when the crosswind builds. I've had some good transition training, but I think I'll be a student for years to come. Oh my!

Flyhound-The light crosswind, like in the video, is more problematic than the strong crosswinds out west. With the wing way down to counter the crosswind and the rudder near the stop the other way, there is little question that the controls are crossed. It is scary at first, but not confusing. With considerable gust spread, you will need to use the throttle dynamically as well. Have fun. If you go by Kingsley's on the way out and the wind is blowing, Slim Kingsley will work with you. Great food as well.