Terry wrote:If you leave the beach and hit the water slow you can instantly feel the drag.
Here is a good shot of the drag that water produces.

Good reasoning for LARGE bushwheels and HP. Graphic reminder! Wow!

I've made many water asissted bar landings, and used water for takeoff, BUT they were just for fun and practice and general screwing around. Didn't NEED to use the water coming or going. Only ONE water take off where I absolutely was counting on the fact that I was at skiing speed when ( as opposed to swimming speed) when I ran out of gravel and transitioned to water. It was not much fun, though it went exactly as I figured it would, but damn not many options if things didn't go as planned, just one, getting wet! I can easily get into a place that is more questionable to get out of, and it's so easy to get all into the landing aspect and somewhat forget about the takeoff

Whee, we need to get together on the Snake sometime, another S-7 pilot and I hit it quite a bit, so keep your eyeballs peeled, and I'll do the same!

Scolopax wrote:Not much extra dirt you are working with there Whee. Looks exciting!

A little too exciting.

8GCBC wrote:Whee, do you walk it first before that kind of commitment? Definitely ba##s to wall!

That's some beautiful farm country!

I didn't walk this one. Had a moment of stupidity, seems to happen a lot to me. I taxied from the other end of the beach so I did have a chance to pick my route. The farm country around where I live is great. The river is a blast to fly and there are some cool farm fields to land.

courierguy wrote: Whee, we need to get together on the Snake sometime, another S-7 pilot and I hit it quite a bit, so keep your eyeballs peeled, and I'll do the same!

Will do CG! I've been spending most of my time on the river north of IF but I will for sure keep an eye out for you.

Insurance, lots of insurance!

R44 R44 . For me!

whee wrote:

Scolopax wrote:Not much extra dirt you are working with there Whee. Looks exciting!

A little too exciting.

8GCBC wrote:Whee, do you walk it first before that kind of commitment? Definitely ba##s to wall!

That's some beautiful farm country!

I didn't walk this one. Had a moment of stupidity, seems to happen a lot to me. I taxied from the other end of the beach so I did have a chance to pick my route. The farm country around where I live is great. The river is a blast to fly and there are some cool farm fields to land.

Thanks Whee. You are definitely at a level that I am working for! Good to see some action on your videos! Be careful!

8GCBC wrote:Thanks Whee. You are definitely at a level that I am working for! Good to see some action on your videos! Be careful!

No no no. You've got that wrong. I just a ham fisted low time pilot that likes to play in the dirt. Rob, Mauleguy, Terry, CG and others are the ones at a level that we both are working for.

whee wrote:

8GCBC wrote:Thanks Whee. You are definitely at a level that I am working for! Good to see some action on your videos! Be careful!

No no no. You've got that wrong. I just a ham fisted low time pilot that likes to play in the dirt. Rob, Mauleguy, Terry, CG and others are the ones at a level that we both are working for.

You have the video, I do not yet! Thanks for the discussing!

Coyote Ugly wrote:I used to ski on 800x4 tires a lot with a 65 horse J3, but touched down fast, 80, 85, and couldn't hold that speed. It would gradually slow down to about 65 where it felt pretty soft, and I lifted back off. From a slow speed, I don't think here at this elevation that I could accelerate enough on takeoff to get off the water, it would drag ya in. Might be a whole different ballgame down lower, but, careful.

Whee, run with this advice, you will have more fun than should be allowed. At these speeds you will have to hold it on, watch your speed on the water....do short runs at first.
If you have the HP to overcome the drag of the water on takeoff....you gained some runway.
If not, Pops summed it up, it will drag you in.
Using water for landings is the most fun.....hitting your mark just got way easy.
Have fun.

That is the plan Terry. I'll do a bunch of skiing and see how my plane responds. I'm guessing I'll discover what you and pops already said, I won't have the hp. Knew I should have went with an O-320 when I did the restoration.

WHY...WHY...WHY???
Don't want to p$%^s in your corn flakes, but do you really have to do that to land on an sand bank in the middle of nowhere until they find you two weeks later? What about getting out of there? Is that fair to your wife or girlfriend sitting next to you?
After spending part of a career landing on eskers in the Arctic and taking risks to move geologists and equipment I think it is stupid to push the envelope as a private pilot to impress your pax or people on shore or for picture bragging rights. I had the displeasure of body bagging a few pilots and passengers in the last forty years of flying.
My problem is that some people watch this s*&%t and decide to try it and get killed!
Sorry but that's the way I feel.

Beamer pilot wrote:

My problem is that some people watch this s*&%t and decide to try it and get killed!
Sorry but that's the way I feel."

Boo frickin Hoo, I'm sure plenty folks on here have been riding backcountry avalanche prone slopes and surfing gnarly waves for much of their lives. You don't see anyone getting all up in arms when some surfer rides a murderous wave in some foreign location, or a skier/snowboarder drops a big cliff??? You better go whine at AKTahoe for posting these epic heli-ski pics of them riding insane peaks in AK, he is absolutely inspiring me to go big, and I could get killed

However, a pilot goes and lands on a some stinkin gravel bar or does a low pass, heaven forbid!!! Shades of the Jackass effect article here. Our grandfathers fought and died for our freedom, even if that freedom does allow for a hard earned Darwin award, all the haters can move to Europe as far as I'm concerned

Skalywag wrote:

Beamer pilot wrote:

My problem is that some people watch this s*&%t and decide to try it and get killed!
Sorry but that's the way I feel."

Boo frickin Hoo, I'm sure plenty folks on here have been riding backcountry avalanche prone slopes and surfing gnarly waves for much of their lives. You don't see anyone getting all up in arms when some surfer rides a murderous wave in some foreign location, or a skier/snowboarder drops a big cliff??? You better go whine at AKTahoe for posting these epic heli-ski pics of them riding insane peaks in AK, he is absolutely inspiring me to go big, and I could get killed

However, a pilot goes and lands on a some stinkin gravel bar or does a low pass, heaven forbid!!! Shades of the Jackass effect article here. Our grandfathers fought and died for our freedom, even if that freedom does allow for a hard earned Darwin award, all the haters can move to Europe as far as I'm concerned

Just how do you find the edge of the envelope if you don't at least go see where it might be??
Just make sure the learning curve is not a 90 degree angle!
Enjoy!
GT

Beamer pilot wrote:WHY...WHY...WHY???
Don't want to p$%^s in your corn flakes, but do you really have to do that to land on an sand bank in the middle of nowhere until they find you two weeks later? What about getting out of there? Is that fair to your wife or girlfriend sitting next to you?
After spending part of a career landing on eskers in the Arctic and taking risks to move geologists and equipment I think it is stupid to push the envelope as a private pilot to impress your pax or people on shore or for picture bragging rights. I had the displeasure of body bagging a few pilots and passengers in the last forty years of flying.
My problem is that some people watch this s*&%t and decide to try it and get killed!
Sorry but that's the way I feel.

No disrespect here, but...your on the wrong forum if thats how you feel...

AKT

Beamer pilot wrote:WHY...WHY...WHY???
Don't want to p$%^s in your corn flakes, but do you really have to do that to land on an sand bank in the middle of nowhere until they find you two weeks later? What about getting out of there? Is that fair to your wife or girlfriend sitting next to you?
After spending part of a career landing on eskers in the Arctic and taking risks to move geologists and equipment I think it is stupid to push the envelope as a private pilot to impress your pax or people on shore or for picture bragging rights. I had the displeasure of body bagging a few pilots and passengers in the last forty years of flying.
My problem is that some people watch this s*&%t and decide to try it and get killed!
Sorry but that's the way I feel.

I agree. But, there many are pilots, that have a higher skill level than most, they fly relatively safe in the conditions discussed in this thread, I believe. For example, Kelly Slater a pro surfer, can ride inside the barrel at 25+ foot Waimea and Slater has been doing it for 20 years among others. However, I have trouble surfing at 8 foot Pipeline, which is life threatening for me at times. I normally surf 3-4 foot waves at my home break. But, I am always interested in getting better, of course with a reasonable amount of safety, watching and discussing techniques. In discussing techniques, I try to find my particular limitations too. Therefore, becoming better by knowing what I can (and can not) pull-off.

Let's be clear I am only referring to "Water Skiing" not landing on unimproved sites or confined areas. Low flying on a river or lake to create a rooster tail is a risky maneuver no matter how you slice it, 100 hours or 20,000 hours.

You all reference sports where you are the only one on board, go for it it's your ass. My observation (not direction) goes for all pilots taking any kind of risks with family or passengers on board for no valid reason other than photo ops or bragging rights,
that also includes weather and mountain ops as well, ask yourself what is the worst case scenario?
Don't get me wrong I am not God's gift to flying and I will never say that one day I won't roll one up in a ball, however it won't be due to reckless negligence.
And if this thread makes even one pilot reconsider or re-think his actions good enough for me.

Standing by for incoming...got my helmet on...

Delete...

Beamer pilot wrote:Let's be clear I am only referring to "Water Skiing" not landing on unimproved sites or confined areas. Low flying on a river or lake to create a rooster tail is a risky maneuver no matter how you slice it, 100 hours or 20,000 hours.

You all reference sports where you are the only one on board, go for it it's your ass. My observation (not direction) goes for all pilots taking any kind of risks with family or passengers on board for no valid reason other than photo ops or bragging rights,
that also includes weather and mountain ops as well, ask yourself what is the worst case scenario?
Don't get me wrong I am not God's gift to flying and I will never say that one day I won't roll one up in a ball, however it won't be due to reckless negligence.
And if this thread makes even one pilot reconsider or re-think his actions good enough for me.

Standing by for incoming...got my helmet on...

OK, Beamer, you're making a bit more sense with your follow up post. It is a little hard not to get offended when you assume we are recklessly endangering unsuspecting passengers, all of the "good" posts (first time ever landing sites, and ones with significant potential hazards) I've read by others and myself have written, have in my case anyway been SOLO. The very few times I have taken a passenger, it has been to the milder familiar sites and they have been fully aware that we were not flying into KPIH. And, who says it's OK to take risks WITH passengers flying the eskers for financial gain, but not take a similar risk simply for the personal satisfaction and fun factor? Now if you want to use the arguement that some have offered up against this type of flying, " well, even solo, you're endangering the first responders", I'd say I have no control over their actions, and after all that is what they are paid to do! I'd opt out of Life Flight and S & R if I could, but I can't so I just make sure I don't need them, I guess I could "make surer" by not flying, or driving, at all. Seriously, I think you'd be hard pressed to come up with one example of a pilot here taking an unwilling, unaware, passenger into an off airport situation and then posting about it. We're all adults, know the risks, and choose to do it anyway.

One more clarification and back to regular programming.
In this business I never want to offend other pilots, I raise awareness based on previous experience and accepted practices. The most vocal responses are usually from the least experienced and nothing wrong with that. I, like all of you started with 0 time in my log book.
A close friend and fellow worker from years ago crashed in Antarctica in a Twin Otter we both understood the reality of operating in these conditions and often argued about differences in operating procedure for that same airplane type. These discussions and this thread are healthy, not everyone has the same outlook on life and aviation is probably one of the most contested activities around.
And please do not throw Freedom in my face, I fought for it as I know many of you have. Parts of South America and South West Africa have little secret for me.
I consider risk and do constant risk assessment every hour of flying.
When some of us take a plane load up to FL370 and you are in 14B with blowing snow and 200' or with thunderstorms around on a dark night or over the ocean I think you will agree with me.
I will now get out of your hair and not post on this thread again.
Thanks.