EZFlap wrote:BCP member 182STOL offers a very good battery upgrade featuring the sealed "Odyssey" type battery. This battery issue was the subject of some discussion on this forum a month or two ago. 182STOL's kit is apparently a bit more expensive than some other options, but this is because his battery mount is physically stronger, higher quality, and is mounted better. Apparently it is also a much easier installation process, so it may cost equal or less when you consider shop time.....

Keep in mind that this mod is not STC'd, unlike at least one of the other similar battery upgrade mods. My IA charges more to do a field approval 337 than a simple sign-off 337 for a STC'd mod-- probably because he has to spend time going over the work involved with his PMI. An STC'd mod is a slam dunk, but ya just never know whether the FAA guy will turn up his nose at a field approval-req'd mod.

Need to finally order this battery and opted to not got with the odyssey and relocation that has been talked about so much here. Which Concord is gonna do it for me? Thanks in advance.

as well, do I have to buy an stc to install some of the concord batteries like the rg-35axc?

Question for the group -

My '58 182A has the battery in the back, but also has the PPonk and 3 blade up front, which I understand puts more weight up front. Any thoughts of moving the battery to the front? I understand the 34# weight savings, and that's a good thing for a 6'4 265# pilot (I'm working on a weight reduction STC on that too!), but in my little mind it means I'm going to also add the extended baggage STC and put at least that much weight back in the back to make sure W&B stays good. Thought? Comments? Beer anyone?

Thanks,

John

Sierra Hotel wrote:Question for the group -

My '58 182A has the battery in the back, but also has the PPonk and 3 blade up front, which I understand puts more weight up front. Any thoughts of moving the battery to the front? I understand the 34# weight savings, and that's a good thing for a 6'4 265# pilot (I'm working on a weight reduction STC on that too!), but in my little mind it means I'm going to also add the extended baggage STC and put at least that much weight back in the back to make sure W&B stays good. Thought? Comments? Beer anyone?

Thanks,

John

John: How about those "Marquita's " You've got more than enough room for the firewall mounted battery and the extended baggage . Bubble windows should be ok for STC weight reduction ---Is 182 ready yet ? How 's the annual ? Did The mech fix the muffler ?When we come up spring/summer were ready for some Alaska Fishing.

Bill, was gone all last week on a business trip to San Diego and the first part of this week in Fairbanks (-31 on Tuesday morning!) for business. I haven't talked with the mechanic, but will give him a call tomorrow.

I'm not worried about the weight as much (oh well, maybe a little) as much as I am the change in CG. Guess I'll just have to put some stuff in the tailend if I move the battery . .

All you have to do is show up, and I'll show you some good times on the water . . . I never promise fish,but I do promise a good time (we usually do pretty good fishin' too!).

About 12 years ago I replaced my stock Cessna battery and box with a field approved firewall box and Odyssey PC625 battery (slightly larger than the SBS J16). The net weight savings was 17#. It is one of the best mods I've ever done to my airplane. Odyssey batteries are far superior to flooded batteries in every respect.



Forward to current times. The FAA's AC43.13-2B discusses acceptable methods for installing aircraft batteries in chapter 10. It specifically includes relocating the battery to the engine compartment, weight and balance changes, and even allows non-TSO batteries. Ladies and gentlemen, you can have your mechanic relocate your battery using this document and no STC or field approval is required. Logbook entry. Read it and smile.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/medi ... .13-2B.pdf

stewartb wrote:
Forward to current times. The FAA's AC43.13-2B discusses acceptable methods for installing aircraft batteries in chapter 10. It specifically includes relocating the battery to the engine compartment, weight and balance changes, and even allows non-TSO batteries. Ladies and gentlemen, you can have your mechanic relocate your battery using this document and no STC or field approval is required. Logbook entry. Read it and smile.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/medi ... .13-2B.pdf

Thanks for this reference. Chapter 10 starts on page 107.

Moving the battery up front sure screws up the feel of the aircraft when on approach and short final/flare when empty. There just isn't enough trim to balance things out so constant back pressure is needed to maintain 70mph indicated. I installed the small battery but left it in the back and still saved something like 15 pounds without screwing up the CG too much. Sure I still have old cables but I have never had a problem starting the engine even with temps in the mid 20's in the backcountry. The firewall mod has some great advantages if you don't mind the negative affect on CG. After flying both I will never move the battery to the firewall.

Most of us don't have Cessnas to fly around empty. The CG argument has never made sense to me. Even on deadhead return trips I always have 40 pounds of survival gear and tools in the far back. The worst case, with retracted Fluidyne's, the forward CG control pressure is easy to manage.

Tundra by Dream Aircraft.

Superior XP-0-360 180hp Odyssey PC625 battery at present. Firewall mounted. It will soon get the test though. This engine is in the process of being upgraded to 10:1 pistons, ported polished and a tweeked cam for a jump to 230 hp.

ington6 wrote:Might do that kit you did and put the extended baggage in. Ive heard good things about those. And I can keep my took kit and survival kit far back in the tail and help that flare out. And yeah, my plane is super hard to fully flare. ive had some hard flat short field landings when im by myself and no weight in the back. just simply run out of elevator.

I have the same model just to the north of you.

The 182E is nose-heavy, and I wouldn't count on putting the battery up front. To get your flares back in the box, try a final approach with a bit *NOSE DOWN* trim. I usually dial in about 6-7 wheel flicks on close final. The trim tab sticking *up* from being placed in nose *down* trim gives you enough elevator authority to do flare robustly and do a wheelie all the way down to about 35 or 40 kt, and lower with some brake and a bit of throttle. Try it in slow flight first to get a feel for what your forearm is in for first. I catch some chuckles and a few bad comments for this from folks who simply can't get their head around the concept till they try it. The danger is that you are no longer flying a hands off stabilized approach, but it's not so bad with only half nose-down trim, really. It is also the best way to keep the prop out of the grass- with a bit of extra RPM during taxi-back with full nose down trim and the wheel all the way back, the nose wheel links are completely extended with a little camping gear in the back. Just be sure you get back to TO settings before you let it rip for take off.

As for the battery brand, I have a Gill now and am less than impressed. I installed a set of wires for a trickle charger that I can access from the baggage area. I am going to get rid of the belly strobe (inop) and install a plug in its place to allow quick trickle charging. I have to keep the thing trickling any time the temps goes below 30, or the chances of a good start are only about 3 in 4. I don't seem to have charge leaks- I think it is the battery. Flying once a week is simply not quite adequate to keep things happy in the cold.

I don't fly a nose dragger with a trim tab so I have different opinions, I guess. The battery mod provides significant benefit with little consequence for me. Not unlike adding big motors, big props, big tires, etc. Measure the gain against the loss and decide whether that mod makes sense for you. My Skywagon is precisely the airplane I want. Probably because I've adapted it to be that. Everyone should strive for the same. The bigger point of my earlier post is the ease in which this mod can be done. Everybody's complained about the heavy hand of the FAA. Read the info I linked and enjoy that the FAA has given owners of certified planes some freedom to make a popular mod, particularly important since batteries ain't what they used to be when these airplanes were certified. I think that's pretty darn cool.

I just replaced the battery in my '05 ACA Citabria..it would still crank the engine over but I figured with the cold wx coming on it would probably kill the weak battery. A little over 5 years isn't bad for a battery. I replaced it with a new stock Concorde CB RG-25XC for about $200 with shipping. The new battery really cranks it over.
Note: if any battery I have in equipment fails to start the first cold day, it gets replaced. Saves wear and tear on the electrical system and sooner or later it's gonna leave you setting!

I installed an Odyssey (Powersafe) battery a few years ago with a field approval 337-- I didn't relocate, just installed it in the existing battery box. guess it coulda been done with just a logbook entry or a non-FA 337 per this AC eh? Oh well, it's in and legal, that's what counts.

Last February I replaced my dying Gill with a Concorde AGM. Although I still trickle charge it like I did the Gill, it really doesn't need it. It doesn't seem to lose any voltage over an extended period of time. The engine started very easily after a full week of sitting at OSH last summer. Just this last Friday, my son and I went flying after about a 3 week hiatus--unfortunately good flying weather is also good deck building weather, and I had to get the deck done. So we got to the hangar, only to find that the fuse had blown in the hangar, so no preheater and no trickle charging. Ambient temp was about 30F at about 2 p.m., after hitting 10F overnight. The engine didn't want to start--finally started on the 4th attempt, but all 4 involved significant cranking. But the starter motor's speed (Skytec) did not appreciably slow at all. Very impressive battery--with an equally impressive price, but well worth it, in my book.

Cary

Re: voltage loss during storage. For the past several years I've pickled and parked my 180 for the winters. The plane has had a small Odyssey battery on the firewall for the past 12-13 years. Even with the small and now old battery I've never needed to attend to the battery prior to starting the engine in spring. It works every time. You guys that live in hot climates lose more voltage than those of us in cool climates. Here's some good Odyssey tech info.
http://www.odysseyfactory.com/documents ... 11_000.pdf

ington6 wrote:I have a 1962 182E. Mine just needs to be replaced and absolutely sucks after sitting in the cold for a few days. i normally have to hook it up to a car to start unless it is over 60 degrees. Is there a battery upgrade I can do? What is the best battery out there? I cant stand having to go through the process of hooking it up to a car, especially when weather is rolling in and you need to take off immediately.

Interesting thread over on CPA about fire on firewall from shorting battery cable on Cessna 180--- right where it passes thru firewall going up to Starter solenoid .

mountainmatt wrote:

stewartb wrote:
Forward to current times. The FAA's AC43.13-2B discusses acceptable methods for installing aircraft batteries in chapter 10. It specifically includes relocating the battery to the engine compartment, weight and balance changes, and even allows non-TSO batteries. Ladies and gentlemen, you can have your mechanic relocate your battery using this document and no STC or field approval is required. Logbook entry. Read it and smile.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/medi ... .13-2B.pdf

Thanks for this reference. Chapter 10 starts on page 107.

Looking for any direction.
Right now I am making a future battery change in my 170 a priority.
First disclaimer right up front; I am mostly "electrical illiterate".

I want to change over the G-25 to an Odyssey SBS J-16 based on the Burle's STC for the C-180.

My 170 is a '55' with an Avcon 180/CS-prop. The current batt. box is located on the left side of the firewall.
If I was forced to, I could live with wedging the new smaller batt. into the existing batt. box, but would prefer to build my own nice appropriately sized box in the same location that it currently is in, as many C-180 owners have posted pics of all over their web sites, probably provided by Burle's or other shops with the STC.

I'm beginning the 337 legwork for my IA and found on our site here the above faa.gov/ Chapter 10 language.

This would be great if it were only a log book endorsement, but after reading it, I don't see any language that refers to dry cell and/or gel cell type installations. Very possible (and it usually is with me ) that I'm missing something here.

The last entry on this particular blog was quite a while ago. I'm hoping for some of the latest greatest info on this subject.

Thanks.
Tom

Well after going at it hard this morning, I have found out that Atlee Dodge has the STC for the C-170-A&B which includes a stainless steel batt box designed to go right on the firewall where the old one currently lives. I did talk to Burl from Burl's A/C earlier this morning at great length (nice guy!). He still doesn't have the STC for the 170. He walked me through the 337 process which if approved would allow me to install the batt using raw materials for hardware, or purchasing his materials that are currently available for the C-180's. If I just didn't have to do the hoop jumping with the FAA via my IA. One interesting note from him was an upcoming price increase on some of his products due to his cost increase on stainless steel.
I think I will do a little more investigating, and if no other options come up, just take the plunge with Altee Dodge.
I'm sooooo tired of going through G-25's. Plus the weight loss from the Skytech, and now the Odyssey!
That's about half the weight the plane gained from the Avcon conversion. Pretty excited.

http://www.fadodge.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=53

I can't recall anyone around here having a bad experience with Altee Dodge. As always, any input appreciated.
I'll update when I decide what to do.
Thanks
Tom