The combination of the 1g weight of the airplane and the extra centrifugal gs of curved flight; to maintain altitude in a level turn or to pull up from a dive. Wrong again. That is when the extra weight takes place. Answer: the pilot, when he pulls on the stick (let's not go acrobatic and do it backwards.)

The airplane is designed so that it will not create load factor. It will come unbalanced and bank, but the nose will go down. It will come unbalanced and climb, but the nose will go down. It will ease out of the dive without load factor, but may hit the ground first.

I'm sorry rotorheads. The thing will destroy itself as quickly as possible.

Wolfgang was a smart guy. He always asked, "What does the airplane want to do?"

I don't see the value in distinguishing between "extra centrifugal gs of curved flight" and "The pilot causing extra centrifugal gs of curved flight".

With this little series of threads, isn't it quite obvious that the pilot will be commanding these control inputs?

"What causes a CFIT accident? The aircraft colliding with terrain? NO! The PILOT CAUSING the aircraft to collide with terrain!"

What is the purpose of the level turn? Why not allow the nose to fall through? We could go up a bit wings level, bank and let the nose go down, level the wings to pull up. No load factor.

Point338 wrote:I don't see the value in distinguishing between "extra centrifugal gs of curved flight" and "The pilot causing extra centrifugal gs of curved flight".

With this little series of threads, isn't it quite obvious that the pilot will be commanding these control inputs?

"What causes a CFIT accident? The aircraft colliding with terrain? NO! The PILOT CAUSING the aircraft to collide with terrain!"

Yes. This.

The way I'm reading the posts of Contactflying's is, in a nutshell; If a plane were able to fly without running out of fuel or hitting something that it could fly itself all the time without ever stalling or loading it's wings. In his own way he is saying, we need to learn how to mimick this type of flight.

Never fault a man for putting himself out there with new ideas. After all before Orville & Wilbur everyone believed the flight was impossible.

Marty

Let me start off saying that I'm loving reading contact's posts and I bought a copy of his book to read when the job slows down...

But you think the point of the last couple threads were that ham-fisted pilots are the cause of most slow-speed GA accidents?

I'll agree that a good control touch can accomplish more on the edge of the envelope than a heavy-handed approach - that's true no matter what you fly, race, etc.

180jocky wrote:
Never fault a man for putting himself out there with new ideas.

Oh you poor poor misguided dear sweet innocent soul....

You're not in Kansas anymore, this is BCP. Come up with a new idea to improve on something old, or dare to discuss some theoretical maneuver that may have some advantage in an emergency, and they shall rear up and smite thee with fury and loathing and righteous indignation. There was a brand new post just today that addresses that subject a little bit.

There's no new idea here.

contactflying wrote:It will ease out of the dive without load factor

Wrong again.
To ease out of the dive, the airplane will have to follow a curved path which means a load factor greater than 1g.

Not trying to be picky, but it’s something more fundamental than pilot and stick. Any time the trimmed-out balance of forces is disturbed, there will be accelerated flight. When I fly straight and level into a big thermal or the mechanical turbulence around the canyons out here, my ass is convinced it’s feeling some g’s even though I’m not even touching the stick. Atmospheric gusts changing the angle of the relative wind resulting in changes in lift generated by the wing…blah, blah, blah. Accumulations of ice, dirt or even rain on a slick airfoil, changing drag, changing speed, changing lift... everything is connected and accelerated flight results if any of them change.

There are a lot of players keeping an airplane aloft. The pilot only gets one vote with the stick. His REAL job is convincing all the other voters to act in something like concert so that the whole mess moves in a manner that looks like the pilot knows what he’s doing.

If you need any more convincing of how important the balance of forces are to flight, just consider the crash of the P-51 Galloping Ghost at Reno. Coming past the grandstand in level flight, fast, but close to 1g, the trim tab separated from the elevator. The removal of one of the many forces at work on the aircraft resulted in a 17g pull up that quickly removed the pilot from the control loop.

Bottom line? To my mind, pilot and stick are not necessarily what causes load factor. But feel free to think otherwise.

EZflap-Don't fuss with these boys. When they try to shoot you down is how you get into their head, find out what they think. Forty Second Boyd's Observe, Orientate, Decide, Act Loop. He got in their head and "hosed them" all in forty seconds or less.

Dogma: a doctrine stated in a formal manner and received by the Church as authoritative.

Is the level turn, in a contact environment, dogma? On 3500 miles of pipeline each week, I had as many shallow turns as steep turns. I quit crop dusting because of my back. Why start making high g turns, even little ones, on the pipeline (or anywhere else?)

I am done with original posts. Like a picked over "pile," I'm all used up. I hope I have caused some to think. I know, it hurts. Dogma is like a warm blanket. Post your ideas. What can they (thought police) do, send you to Vietnam? If you have questions, please ask.

I am reminded of the classic SNL skit about Theodoric the Medieval Barber:

"Theodoric of York: Well, I'll do everything humanly possible. Unfortunately, we barbers aren't gods. You know, medicine is not an exact science, but we are learning all the time. Why, just fifty years ago, they thought a disease like your daughter's was caused by demonic possession or witchcraft. But nowadays we know that Isabelle is suffering from an imbalance of bodily humors, perhaps caused by a toad or a small dwarf living in her stomach."

That works for me.

contactflying wrote:
EZflap-Don't fuss with these boys. When they try to shoot you down is how you get into their head, find out what they think.

That's precisely the issue... I did find out how they think

I have to take exception to your statement about not making any more new posts. The whole reason this thing exists is for exchange of ideas, experiences, camaraderie, etc. So far, you appear to have as much (likely more) to contribute here as most everyone else.

You guys can go back and forth lamenting about being victims of the big, bad BCP boards. If that's what trips your trigger, go right ahead.

But if you're authoritatively spreading misinformation, you're going to get called out.

EZFlap wrote:

contactflying wrote:
EZflap-Don't fuss with these boys. When they try to shoot you down is how you get into their head, find out what they think.

That's precisely the issue... I did find out how they think

I have to take exception to your statement about not making any more new posts. The whole reason this thing exists is for exchange of ideas, experiences, camaraderie, etc. So far, you appear to have as much (likely more) to contribute here as most everyone else.

I think those interested in reading more about gravity thrust, zoom reserve, kinetic energy of pressure airspeed, keeping the wing alive and many more New Terms for Dreaming Ag Pilots can just buy his self-published book. As for you, don't be discouraged from further expounding upon the virtues of the deep canyon hammerhead. We need tales to tickle the funny bones of the troops when they get home from Vietnam.

I've enjoyed reading contacts posts. Even though I dont fully understand some of his terms. As for this latest series of posts, yes it should be obvious that it is the pilot that causes a lot of accidents. Unfortunately, much of the public, and some pilots seem to think its the airplane doing it. For any non pilots, or student pilots reading, I think contacts comments will help them learn.
Its not misinformation, just information that seems basic to many of us. So far of what I've read at least.

Challenging assertions and questioning ideas isn't being "thought police." It's just Thought.

Naww....just more assertions.