Nowhere did I suggest that folks should only post if they can come up with helpful, innovative, or revolutionary material. This is an internet discussion forum. Like any other forum I've ever visited, it's (at least) 95% banter. Nothing wrong with that, that's why I enjoy them.

If you read my post again, you'll see that it was prefaced with the condition "When you want to seem revolutionary...". Clearly, the comment that followed doesn't apply to the majority of the good people here (those who aren't trying to promote themselves as an authority who's arrived to save the masses from their inferior knowledge).

I have far more to learn than I have to teach. I don't claim to know everything, which is exactly why I only have a few posts. I mostly lurk. I do know a few things, though, and am more than happy to speak up about those. The more I learn, the more I'll have to offer. And honestly, you didn't look very hard if you couldn't find at least one comment I made that was constructive.

That being said, I am more than happy to give shit to someone who starts a thread with "you're wrong!" and then proceeds to post what I believe to be useless, relabeled, or incorrect information.

Of coarse I don't have to or maybe shouldn't read any or most of Contacts somewhat complicated posts. But I'm sure there's hundreds, if not thousands of other pilots like me that just want to know simple terminology and instruction to learn to fly and to help keep us from injuring or killing ourselves.

Obsolutely no offence Contact! But being the active opinionated forum we are, I thought I'd add a little fuel to the fire

I also got to admit. I was scratching my head at some of these posts, too. But is that a good thing? Kinda makes you think and study the subject a little longer With that said. I'm guessing Contact is more geared to the smarter/more advanced pilots? If so, nothing wrong with that at all.

Watch Rob's video. He is doing some amazing, almost aerobatic, things with that airplane. But he not fighting it. He is not pulling gs just to be pulling. He is doing mostly what his airplane wants to do. I have always been fascinated about how to work with airplanes like that, and I like discussing it. To all I have offended, my deepest apology.

I don't think contact is possibly the best writer out there. Much like myself .
But I have been reading his book and I like it.

To those of you that don't like what he has to say ,ask yourself honestly how much time you really spend below 50' and maneuvering? That's where what he has to say really matters. If your answer is as little as possible because it makes u nervous then this book is'nt for u. Stay high and file IFR and there's nothing wrong with that. Flying should be fun if your scared or nervous while flying u probably shouldn't be doing what your doing.

58 Skylane,
Rob has smoothed out some of my awkward language. I was a lot looser in the book, but as Robert Reser wisely pointed out, I was using too many cliches (a trite or commonplace expression or idea.) Rather than make us think, cliches make us not think.

contactflying wrote:Watch Rob's video. He is doing some amazing, almost aerobatic, things with that airplane. But he not fighting it. He is not pulling gs just to be pulling. He is doing mostly what his airplane wants to do. I have always been fascinated about how to work with airplanes like that, and I like discussing it. To all I have offended, my deepest apology.

I think "offended" is too strong a word. I don't feel that you have offended anyone as much as confused them or disagreed with their opinions. Fairly easy to do with this crowd. Not a bad thing really. It tends to promote spirited " discussions".
I admit that I tried to read your book after it was highly recommended by a friend. He is a highly skilled ex-ag pilot and darn good backcountry pilot. I say tried because it doesn't speak well to my way of thinking. As anyone who is familiar with my videos can attest, I do spend a lot of time low and maneuvering so I was quite interest in what you had to say. Sadly, I have a difficult time grasping some of your concepts.
Personally I hope that you continue to post new threads.

What causes "load factor" in my plane is the fact that I tend to over-eat too much.

Where's the link to Rob's video? I really want to watch it.

I think he intends to put it on soon.

Blu wrote:I don't think contact is possibly the best writer out there. Much like myself .
But I have been reading his book and I like it.

To those of you that don't like what he has to say ,ask yourself honestly how much time you really spend below 50' and maneuvering? That's where what he has to say really matters. If your answer is as little as possible because it makes u nervous then this book is'nt for u. Stay high and file IFR and there's nothing wrong with that. Flying should be fun if your scared or nervous while flying u probably shouldn't be doing what your doing.

Now, there's an interesting point for you.....a great follow up to Rob's earlier post, proclaiming definitively that nobody but sprayers knows ANYthing about flying.

I would respectfully point out that we ALL spend the most important part of EVERY flight below 50 feet....it's called takeoff and landing.

And, some of us have actually spent quite a lot of time flying airplanes with reference to the ground at all sorts of levels, mostly low, and in actual WINDs--after all, if you're not a sprayer, you don't have to worry about drift, so you can actually fly in some wind.

Suggesting that we should all just "Stay high and file IFR" is more than a little bullshit, in matter of fact.

As the man said, if you can't come up with anything new, just make up names for everything.....or better yet, just imply that everyone else is a simpleton, and fit only to fly in the flight levels.

And, I don't think I'd use Reser's new book to justify my views on aviating. Pretty fluffy, and not much content.

MTV

Corn and wheat are both over $6.00 per bushel. We treat with poisons, herbicides and fungicides in strong winds now. We seed and fertilize mostly in the windy part of the day. High dollar people food crops are sprayed day and night. We manage wind in order to avoid low downwind turns. My non-ag pilots find the base to final turn into a headwind/crosswind helpful. If this stuff was taught in sanctioned texts, there would be no safety need for us to write about it.

The world aviation community is concerned with contact flying techniques that are lacking among today's pilots. Go to iaftp.org and you will find that I am not the only one talking about it. The discussions of instructors and pilots on BCP are of interest to me in that you'all seem to have interest and experience in contact flying.

If Rob sprays twenty 80 acre fields tonight, he will make around 1080 energy management turns below pattern altitude. He will make eight takeoffs and landings. He is a reliable source of information on the kinds of problems that come up in takeoff and landing.

Like pipeline work in the midwest, you Alaska pilots fly in lots of bad weather. Some of you work low with animal counts, etc. You make lots of off field takeoff and landings. There is a lot of experience here. We can pass some of that experience along or take it to our grave.

I am loud and obnoxious. Some like that, some don't. I like to discuss techniques. I will discuss theory, practice, and techniques with anybody.

Wowwww....

Sorry you misconstrued my post Mike, I can assure you what ever post you are referring to meant nothing close to what you are quoting...

Kinda petering out on the banter...

Contact, I really am just a student of this stuff, albeit a life long one, but thanks anyways

Pundy, the video project was an experiment for an ag summit booth, not really a 'for the fun of it deal' but I quickly realised guys like Greg and Zzz are so good at that stuff they make it look easy... then guys like me try it and flounder...
If this theme sounds eerily familiar to the ag turn them, you have been paying attention well I can send you a link, but honestly after watching swingle and the likes it will likely be a disappointment...

Take care, Rob

Rob,

Sorry if I misconstrued your earlier post. Summer has finally arrived in the Upper Midwest, and apparently our long drought is at least temporarily out of service.....grumpy is me.

MTV

Rob wrote: I can send you a link, but honestly after watching swingle and the likes it will likely be a disappointment...

That's no reason to not share. We can't all fly some oil burning aggro duster rocket, so come on... Let's see that video. I really enjoyed it.

mtv wrote:

Blu wrote:I don't think contact is possibly the best writer out there. Much like myself .
But I have been reading his book and I like it.

To those of you that don't like what he has to say ,ask yourself honestly how much time you really spend below 50' and maneuvering? That's where what he has to say really matters. If your answer is as little as possible because it makes u nervous then this book is'nt for u. Stay high and file IFR and there's nothing wrong with that. Flying should be fun if your scared or nervous while flying u probably shouldn't be doing what your doing.

Now, there's an interesting point for you.....a great follow up to Rob's earlier post, proclaiming definitively that nobody but sprayers knows ANYthing about flying.

I would respectfully point out that we ALL spend the most important part of EVERY flight below 50 feet....it's called takeoff and landing.


And, some of us have actually spent quite a lot of time flying airplanes with reference to the ground at all sorts of levels, mostly low, and in actual WINDs--after all, if you're not a sprayer, you don't have to worry about drift, so you can actually fly in some wind.

Suggesting that we should all just "Stay high and file IFR" is more than a little bullshit, in matter of fact.

As the man said, if you can't come up with anything new, just make up names for everything.....or better yet, just imply that everyone else is a simpleton, and fit only to fly in the flight levels.

And, I don't think I'd use Reser's new book to justify my views on aviating. Pretty fluffy, and not much content.

MTV

I hope the weather improves soon out there cause u do seem grumpy

But since I've been known to poke the bear hear goes

I'm not an ag pilot but it seems obvious to me that they get a level and type of low level experience no other pilots really get. Why not learn from that?

Seems to me you just don't like his "style" of flying and therefore want it to be "wrong" so your style can be right.

I don't think it works that way. I think there is room for both depending on the equipment, mission, pilot and risk acceptance level.

Blu

Without being too offensive, I would put it this way:

You can have a god's knowledge of all things flying, and an ape's ability to write and communicate. The former does not make up for the latter when trying to instruct via book and Internet, especially with flying, a discipline that bears an incredible depth of nuance and precision.

That's just a point of contention. I'm not calling anyone an ape.

I was taught how to fly from 40-year Imperial Valley (CA) ag pilot and I never heard him use any of your terminology or techniques in discussed in Contact Flying. He certainly taught me to have an abort plan in mind before brake release, and before I committed to landing. He also used to give me a whack in the back of the head for flying un-coordinated "cuz if you can nip at the stall, or have the ball out, but you can't have both, right side up or upside down".

Seems to me couple that with the current FAA texts available and you can pretty much summarize Contact Flying and make it palatable for the masses.

Mike-

stearmann4 wrote:I was taught how to fly from 40-year Imperial Valley (CA) ag pilot and I never heard him use any of your terminology or techniques in discussed in Contact Flying.
Mike-

And you oughta see the latest addition to his 'home strip' BTW don't you know the ag pilots in these valleys carry very little weight...lololol

stearmann4 wrote:He also used to give me a whack in the back of the head for flying un-coordinated "cuz if you can nip at the stall, or have the ball out, but you can't have both, right side up or upside down".
Mike-

I do believe that this would fall under the category that contact included suggesting that sometimes we might exaggerate either over or under for the purposes of instruction... after all a slip to landing is both uncoordinated, and often practiced at the edge of the stall or incipient... If we disagree on that point, I am OK with that... But I think you know where I'm coming from...
Furthermore, I am not sure how your ag career is progressing, but I can say with no reservation that even that fine gent you learned to fly from would agree that spraying professionally without uncoordinated flight is an impossibility.. Period...

stearmann4 wrote:Seems to me couple that with the current FAA texts available and you can pretty much summarize Contact Flying and make it palatable for the masses.
Mike-

There are very few themes to a romance... I for one am glad we didn't stop writing at Rome and Juliet...

Mike, You know I'm a big fan of everything you stand for and are doing.... So hopefully you don't get shook up if I nit pik your post

The Tcart I went to look at was lame... Larry offered me his, but it's not at the home strip. Do I need to go look at it?

Rob wrote:

stearmann4 wrote:
And you oughta see the latest addition to his 'home strip' BTW don't you know the ag pilots in these valleys carry very little weight...lololol

stearmann4 wrote:He also used to give me a whack in the back of the head for flying un-coordinated "cuz if you can nip at the stall, or have the ball out, but you can't have both, right side up or upside down".
Mike-

Mike, You know I'm a big fan of everything you stand for and are doing.... So hopefully you don't get shook up if I nit pik your post

The Tcart I went to look at was lame... Larry offered me his, but it's not at the home strip. Do I need to go look at it?

Rob, I was referring more specifically to turns. You're absolutely right that slips require uncoordinated flight, as well as stalls but with that I think the first thing he taught me was to raise the wing with rudder.

Me get ruffled at nit picking? 24 years in the military did nothing if not give me thick skin I totally forgot that you knew my humble beginnings. Stopped into El Centro to see Larry a couple of months ago, even he admitted he might have gone "over the top" with the new runway.

Mike-

So what causes thread creep?