DeltaRomeo wrote:This begs the question; How do you propose to get the ethanol out?

Hotrod is correct, basically you dump a bunch of water in it, agitate and emulsify the shit out of it, let it settle for a significant period of time, and drain off the water/alcohol mixture.

THEN, as WYFlyer says, you should be putting a little bit of 100LL avgas in it anyway to make a better fuel for your engine, bring the octane back up, etc..

Again, yes this is of course some amount of extra PITA effort, especially to make a batch of 70 or 100 gallons for a thirsty 180. Some accounting genius smarter than me can create a cost analysis graph and plot out the crossover point (where the difference in price between avgas and car gas from the pump is high enough that it makes all this effort worthwhile).

My amateur guess is that if the difference between avgas and car gas is $1/gal then it's not worth it unless you use a lot of gas. If you are operating a Beech 18, then it might make sense at 50 cents a gallon difference. If you're flying a 65HP T-craft on weekends for the burger run, then the car gas might have to be 1/2 or 1/3 the price of avgas for it to be worthwhile.

Can anyone point me toward the research that indicates ethanol is harmful to airplane fuel systems? I've been trying to search but keep coming up with stories about airplanes that run on ethanol.

My interest pertains specifically to Cessna fuel systems.

I usually mix it-- currently 4 cans of mogas to one can of 100LL.
I use that ratio mainly because I have five gas cans.
I used to only have four cans....then I went 3-to-1.
I do think a little lead in the fuel is a good thing....
just not as much as 100LL has.

albravo wrote:Can anyone point me toward the research that indicates ethanol is harmful to airplane fuel systems? I've been trying to search but keep coming up with stories about airplanes that run on ethanol.

My interest pertains specifically to Cessna fuel systems.

I think you can run ethanol in a plane as long as all the rubber hose and oring have been replaced with ethanol compatible ones.
Te other main issue is that ethanol can just release all the water at one time, which can cause a bug gulp of water to enter the system. But if a guy drains his tanks religiously then I don't see that being a big problem either.

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I'm not sure if this will help any of you but here in western Canada ALL CO-OP fuel stations sell premium fuel with no ethanol. their regular and mid grades have up to 10 % ethanol mixed in. I own a 1973 Cherokee 140 and with the auto fuel STC and have ran over 1000 gallons through with absolutely zero issues.

AVGAS- 50 gallons @ 7.40 per gallon =$370
VS
MOGAS-50 gallons @4.20 per gallon=$210

Total savings is $160 per 50 gallons
this years savings will more than pay for new tires, spark plugs and a good chunk of my insurance, OR one could put those savings towards an engine overhaul. or beer whatever u choose as an owner

Crazycanuck wrote:I'm not sure if this will help any of you but here in western Canada ALL CO-OP fuel stations sell premium fuel with no ethanol. their regular and mid grades have up to 10 % ethanol mixed in. I own a 1973 Cherokee 140 and with the auto fuel STC and have ran over 1000 gallons through with absolutely zero issues.

AVGAS- 50 gallons @ 7.40 per gallon =$370
VS
MOGAS-50 gallons @4.20 per gallon=$210

Total savings is $160 per 50 gallons
this years savings will more than pay for new tires, spark plugs and a good chunk of my insurance, OR one could put those savings towards an engine overhaul. or beer whatever u choose as an owner

This is interesting. CO-OP told me they can't gauantee it to be ethanol free and when I told them what it was for they refused to deliver it. Petro can has no problem with it.

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A1Skinner wrote:This is interesting. CO-OP told me they can't gauantee it to be ethanol free and when I told them what it was for they refused to deliver it. Petro can has no problem with it.

I guess you have to respect someone that tells the truth and stands behind (or makes it clear they cannot) their product.

My experience is Av gas is on average AT LEAST $2.00 more per gallon. Sometimes more. I burn nothing but mo gas and while I store and buy clear gas in my bulk tank at home, I have no qualms about burning E-10 and do so on a XC rather then burn Av gas. It's the lead and it's effect on my Rotax I don't like, the cost savings is a bonus.

albravo wrote:Can anyone point me toward the research that indicates ethanol is harmful to airplane fuel systems? I've been trying to search but keep coming up with stories about airplanes that run on ethanol.

My interest pertains specifically to Cessna fuel systems.

I saw what ethanol would do to automotive fuel systems back in the 80's; it would turn the rubber components to a black tar/mush. I suspect that our aging fleet is of similar rubber composition if it hasn't been updated with newer rubber hoses, pump diaphragms, o-rings, etc. Cessna fuel tank bladders are a potential problem as well.