Backcountry Pilot • Which LSA does the forum recommend

Which LSA does the forum recommend

Technical and practical discussion about specific aircraft types such as Cessna 180, Maule M7, et al. Please read and search carefully before posting, as many popular topics have already been discussed.
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Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:37 pm

Which LSA does the forum recommend

Hello to the forum members,
I would like to get your valued opinion on which LSA would be best to build. For months now I have been researching the pro's and con's between the Skyraider Super and Rans S7. It is well understood that the S7 is a tried and true tandem, but I cant forego the 700 lb useful load and looks of the Skyraider Super. My type of flying is simple: 20% backcountry between FL, South GA and SC with a once a year cross country out west, maybe JC , yellowstone, glasier and the multitude of other beautiful sights around the NW as seen from a Tandem cub-type of aircraft. 60% of the time will be spent flying the wife around central FL, and the remaining 20% would be afternoon flights around my homebase or the hour flight to my farm in N FL, of which I have a 1500' grass strip. Other than the one trip a year my flying is by myself with a buddy flying his own S7 or Skyraider Super (neither of us likes the back co-pilot seat, would rather be PIC). NOthing requiring copious amounts of luggage, just an overnight back, cameras and replacement parts. Two -three hours between restroom and or stretching of the legs (broken back), where 24 or so fuel load is fine. One of the most important facts or truly lack there of, is the lack of info, owners and videos of the Skyraider Super. THis makes is very hard to discern which is best or whether or not the SUper is even a decent aircraft...........Only the members of this forum would know.......Finally there is the cost factor, as kit built aircraft with matching avionics and 912 100 hp, there is roughly $9-10K variance in cost to build a '0' hour LSA you have built with your own hands. My overall experience in fabrication is great and my aircraft knowledge is diverse, so building either is not a problem........ Resale?????????Safety??????????Quality of the supplied kit??????????Customer Service???????????

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and please chime in good or bad........
Wayne
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Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:45 pm

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

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Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:03 pm

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

Just my 2 cents.

I hate to feed the chicken and egg syndrome but if it's hard to find info about sky raider, there probably aren't nearly as many of them. If there's not so many, builder and company support will likely be more difficult to come by. Not necessarily.

Rans has a good reputation and there are quite a few of them.

If you're not entirely set on tandem, the Highlander also deserves serious consideration, from reports here. I know I'd give it a serious look if I was going to build.
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Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:13 pm

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

I know it's not LSA, but have you considered a Maule? :D
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Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:53 pm

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

I really have a hankering for a tandem, but will look at the maule. There is one at our airport and I think I know the guy that owns it. Thanks for the 2 cents.
Wayne
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Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:57 pm

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

GroundLooper wrote:Just my 2 cents.

I hate to feed the chicken and egg syndrome but if it's hard to find info about sky raider, there probably aren't nearly as many of them. If there's not so many, builder and company support will likely be more difficult to come by. Not necessarily.

Rans has a good reputation and there are quite a few of them.

If you're not entirely set on tandem, the Highlander also deserves serious consideration, from reports here. I know I'd give it a serious look if I was going to build.

The Sky Raider is a well built plane and on par with the S-7.
Saw a new Highlander at last weeks EAA meeting and I was VERY impressed. I am looking for a new ride and the Highlander and the Rans S-7 are on the top of my list.
You are looking a substantial outlay of cash so I would spend a little more and do a factory visit. Get a demo flight and develop a feel for the support that you will get after the sale.
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Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:47 pm

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

I would do some more investigation into the claimed 700 lb useful load for the SkyRaider Super. With that tiny wing, even 500 lbs will require a lot of take off roll out...more than you may think.

I have a Ridge Runner, which is nearly an identical plane lb for lb and has nearly an identical wing as the Super. My present wing has extensions on it that make it equal to the area of the Super's wing. Presently configured, there is no way in God's good earth that I would consider it a plane capable of 700 lbs useful weight. You're better off shaving a couple hundred lbs off of that web site's figure and staying safe.

One thing that turned me on to the Ridge Runner is the personal, enthusiastic customer service, follow-up and that Rocky Mountain Wings can custom make a plane to suit your mission parameters. I'm having a second plane custom made for me at this very moment.

Other than a RR, I would agree with the others that an S7 looks good, though more expensive. Slightly larger than both an RR and a Skyraider and just as fun, would be the Kitfox, available in several types. Also, the Just Air Escapade is their smaller plane and looks good.
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Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:01 pm

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

After flying my Highlander more than 1400 hours over the last six years, I like it so much I'm building a new one and I have also become a dealer for them! They are an amazingly fun and capable airplane.
Feel free to call me if you would like. 208-880-7887 [email protected]
Steve :D
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Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:23 am

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

Have to agree with Taildrger , I though I wanted a tandam( S7) untill I looked at the Highlander. Side by side, my wife likes to rub my leg, lots of bagage room , great factory support, If you want to see the capabilitys, watch taildrgerfuns video,it is awsom. You guess it I am building a highlander, getting so close engine start in two weeks. :D
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Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:28 am

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

why go with the small stuff? carbin cub ex! :lol: :lol: :wink:
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Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

You might want to check out the Murphy Rebel as well. It can carry a lot of weight, it is side by side and with the 912 engine falls into this category as well.
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Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:39 am

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

Do you need to build something or is an existing older airplane an option?

Is money a big factor or a small one?

Is reliability a big factor or a small one?

Here are some things to consider... my comments assume you are serious about the tandem seating arrangement.

Even if you paid $30,000 for an 85 horse antique J-3 Cub, you would be far lower than the cost of most all of the homebuilts when everything is said and done. And you would be flying tomorrow.

A set of VG's and the STC modification to put flaps on it will give you a very capable back country airplane for two. The Don Swords O-200 crankshaft conversion on the 85 will put you right up there in low-end Super Cub territory.

Buying a runout basket case J-3 for $20K and doing the restoration/upgrades as mentioned would put you FURTHER AHEAD than even starting with a 51% quick build kit.

Buying an experimental "CUBy" J-3 homebuilt (if it meets LSA weight) project would give you the option to put in flaps and a larger engine without the paperwork issues... and get you smack dab into Super Cub country for 1/4 or 1/3 the cost.

All the above options have the benefit of being able to use a cheap C-85, O-200 or O-320. As good as some of the new experimental powerplants are, there is still a value to flying behind an O-200 when your family is in there with you and you're flying over the !($*% Everglades!

My point is simply that there are several additional options to choose from, and do not limit yourself before you pencil out all of them. If your analysis still leads you to building a new RANS or Ridge Runner or Tundra, then you're a happier andmore informed builder.

As far as building a kit, I have not been close to any of them except the Highlander and the Zenair 701. Between these two, the Highlander appears to be much more robust and safe.
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Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:44 pm

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

taildrgfun wrote:After flying my Highlander more than 1400 hours over the last six years, I like it so much I'm building a new one and I have also become a dealer for them! They are an amazingly fun and capable airplane.
Feel free to call me if you would like. 208-880-7887 [email protected]
Steve :D



I sold my Kitfox 1 in '89, after putting 650 hrs on it in 3 years. I decided I needed/wanted more baggage room and a four stroke, the Highlander has both. This was way back before the 912 Rotax of course. I wish I could have smoothly transitioned into a Highlander back then, but the company president was still in grade school (maybe jr. high)?! It has been, and continues to be, very interesting to see the Avid/Kitfox original design go through various changes, it would make an interesting family tree, how the different company owners are related, how some worked for each others, etc. All have been great flyers, and the current Highlander certainly takes the cake for the present.

Meanwhile I'm on my second Rans S-7, and in 14 years just passed the 2000 hr mark in type. Both great little airplanes obviously, side by side and tandem both have their advantages and disadvantages, as do folding wings versus non.

The company behind ANY kitplane is a huge factor, and it's not until you have been left high and dry that you can fully appreciate that! Or, when you are still waiting for parts for your kit model A, still backordered, and the company starts to advertise the new and improved model B, that will really piss you off! My last Rans was the first and only out of 5 kitplanes that had EVERY SINGLE PART in one big crate, NOTHING was missing or backordered. In fact, I had quite a few parts left over, go figure. #-o
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Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:45 pm

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

I delivered a Legend Cub with vg's on it. It would get up and down pretty short and was fun to fly with both doors open. It would be my first choice in an LSA.
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Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:39 pm

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

Courierguy, what is your response to what ezflap had to say about purchasing a J3 and restoring it? Either plane would fit my needs and desires. I absolutely love the S7, but I had not had any experience in either short or long tail, what are your thoughts on each. One could buy a short tail with 2 stroke and restore it a little and put in a larger 4 stroke, it would then be a backcountry flyer. I too like the J3 idea as well, I will have to do some research on that thought. What is meant by putting a 0-200 crank in the 85? Ezflap could you expand on that comment? I really like the ability to fly sooner than later......

Thank you for the comments, please keep them coming
Blackfin
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Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:46 pm

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

58Skylane... [-X


( :D )
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Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:35 pm

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

blackfin wrote:Courierguy, what is your response to what ezflap had to say about purchasing a J3 and restoring it? Either plane would fit my needs and desires. I absolutely love the S7, but I had not had any experience in either short or long tail, what are your thoughts on each. One could buy a short tail with 2 stroke and restore it a little and put in a larger 4 stroke, it would then be a backcountry flyer. I too like the J3 idea as well, I will have to do some research on that thought. What is meant by putting a 0-200 crank in the 85? Ezflap could you expand on that comment? I really like the ability to fly sooner than later......

I totally agree with EZ, the smaller classics are the best way to go for a lot of people. The only problem with them for me is that they are certified, and I am a dyed in the wool experimental guy, I hooked on the freedom they offer to make your own decisions, and I ignore the drawbacks. Yes, give a deserving old bird a good home and get in the air ASAP. Most can tell stories of buying a Champ, T-Craft etc., flying it for a few years, and then selling at a higher then purchased price. Most can also tell horror stories. My brief T-Craft fling 20 years ago had me in it for 8600 bucks AFTER building new wings (covering and spars) and a new paint job. Over a hundred flying hours later I sold it for 12,500. Over a decade later after a few more owners I think it last sold for 18,500, so the right deal is a great deal and as cheap of flying as possible, much cheaper then experimental, where breaking even is doing darn good.

Thank you for the comments, please keep them coming
Blackfin
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Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:04 pm

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

I'm not biased at all :^o , Cubs are GREAT planes, including the little ones. I just flew mine (1946 J-3/PA11) 4 hrs each way to the JC fly-in and for the money they are hard to beat. 90 hp and 4 gal/hr if you throttle back-and they sound like an airplane.
EZ-Flaps? what for? ballast? Don't they weigh something? Remember way back in the beginning of airplanes Baron von Slipperouwski invented the slip, and that handles most situations...... :)

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Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:44 pm

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

Blackfin, there is an approved modification from Don Swords (Don's Dream Machines) that allows the C-85 engine to be retro-fitted with the O-200 crankshaft. It yields a 97 horsepower engine with little or no weight gain over the C-85. Some of the better Continental experts ("L-2 Gary", Harry Fenton, and several others) also know how to build a hybrid engine using a combination of selected parts from various Continental engines in the series and/or a particular C-90 variant, that puts out a little less raw horsepower than the O-200, but puts out greater torque at lower RPM and lower fuel burn. However this may result in an ever so slight paperwork problem if one of the few truly qualified FAA engine inspectors ever looks inside the engine. There are a few other tricks we used in the little race engines that would only be appropriate if you go the experimental route. Can't discuss those here, black SUV parked in front of my house.
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Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:39 am

Re: Which LSA does the forum recommend

Blackfin I Just recently purchased a Rans S7 and absolutely love it. It has the 912S and is very quite and smooth. It has vg's on it and can fly at 28-30 nicely. The airplane only Burns about 4 gallons an hour and is sure an eye catcher. I put 26" airstreaks on it an I couldn't be happier. I highly recommended it.

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