Just wondering what some of you do to help get wind direction in remote landing areas?

Is there something you throw out the window that would act as a type of windsock? a smoke bomb seems like a great idea? just looking for some input on what works. I do mostly Ice fishing in the Maule on remote lakes and I struggle with wind direction, I have tried to figure out drift and ground Vs indicated air speed with limited success and resulting level of anxiety.

any help would be appreciated

Roamer

Smoke from chimneys, flags, patterns on the water.
You should also be able to tell when approaching with a standard pattern. Maybe fly it slower than usual so any wind would have more affect on your track.

I've mulled this question myself and hope somebody with much more experience than me offers an answer.

Remote lakes don't offer much in the way of chimneys and frozen water doesn't ripple much.

I like the idea of a smoke bomb but the thought of dropping it in the plane by accident give me pause.

Two different coloured balloons on a string, tied to a rock? Not likely to burst on impact and if there is any breeze at all they should array from rock to first, then second balloon.

Depending on the size of the rock, their movement across the ice will give some sense of the strength of the breeze.

Just spitballin'

I slow fly a pattern at 50 mph or so, and keep an eye on the GPS. What more do you need then that? If its so light that method doesn't work, land any direction, plenty of room on a frozen lake (maybe not)?! Worse comes to worse, just get on the brakes, it will give you something to do while sliding out of control past your LZ. A little ski plane humor Maybe survey tape, orange, tied to a rock or other weight. The tail of the tape should lay downwind from the weight is the theory. Hang glider pilots I know use that method, and it seems to work OK. I'll.pass on lighting off a smoke bomb in the cockpit, I'd rather land down wind.

There's an old time procedure called a "Wind Circle". Set up at a couple hundred feet above your frozen lake or ???, fly precisely over an easily identified spot, and as you pass over it, start a standard rate turn....bank angle doesn't matter much, but keep it constant and coordinated. Take it all the way around 360 degrees, and note the effect the wind had on the circuit.

I try to initiate the turn with what I think the wind direction is off one wing tip. Easier to see the effect of the wind if you guessed right.

The difference between where you started and where you ended tells you something about wind direction and velocity.

MTV

I use GPS ground speed when no other indicator is available. Over fly your intended landing point at a chosen airspeed and read your GPS ground speed. Turn around and fly it the other direction at the same indicated airspeed. Land in the direction that gives you a slower ground speed.

On short final, if you can't comfortably maintain what appears to be a brisk walk, try the other way.

Waterboy wrote:I use GPS ground speed when no other indicator is available. Over fly your intended landing point at a chosen airspeed and read your GPS ground speed. Turn around and fly it the other direction at the same indicated airspeed. Land in the direction that gives you a slower ground speed.

That, or the circle method, and when you're close to the surface any drift will become obvious and you can then adjust your heading into the wind.

mtv wrote:There's an old time procedure called a "Wind Circle". Set up at a couple hundred feet above your frozen lake or ???, fly precisely over an easily identified spot, and as you pass over it, start a standard rate turn....bank angle doesn't matter much, but keep it constant and coordinated. Take it all the way around 360 degrees, and note the effect the wind had on the circuit.

I try to initiate the turn with what I think the wind direction is off one wing tip. Easier to see the effect of the wind if you guessed right.

The difference between where you started and where you ended tells you something about wind direction and velocity.

MTV

I was going to type this up but figured one of you smart guys would beat me to it!

This is what we use in the military helo world if no other cues are available. We call it the "wind drift circle."

I lay a strip of smoke down the runway with the smoke system then watch which way it drifts off and how fast it disperses.

Steelroamer wrote:Is there something you throw out the window that would act as a type of windsock? a smoke bomb seems like a great idea?

Roamer

If you try this, tape the smoke can/grenade/bomb/device to a pine bow or something else that will keep it on the surface of the snow. Otherwise they tend to bury themselves on impact and not really put out much of a signal. We use this technique on some of our high alt, glacier, and Inside-the-ping-pong-ball rescue missions.
The other ways mentioned are better, easier with a bit of practice, and no logistics; you should also grab the cooled thing before you depart.

A short piece of flagging tied to a little piece of bamboo or similar and dropped out on a low pass will help. Flagging will lay down wind.
Have fun!!

Thanks for all the input guys, I have tried a tennis ball with welding rod jammed into it in about 5 directions with flagging tape on the ends with the hope that at least one of them would be standing up when the ball stopped..... with limited success.

as always guys I appreciate the input.

thanks

The good thing about flying low all the time is that track vs heading is obvious. The bad thing is that you have to go around things.

Since I was raised on a ranch, Dad taught me to look at the way the cattle or sheep are standing...They tend to always keep their asses to the wind. So I guess, throw a sheep out and see which way he turns his ass, on the way down?

Forty years ago when I was learning to fly a lot of the windsocks where not lighted even though the runways were. My instructor taught me to fly exactly perpendicular to the runway (no wind correction angle) and see which way the airplane drifted, then turn downwind in the direction you were drifting. You could adapt this to off airport landings if once you determined the heading you wanted to land on you overflew the proposed landing area perpendicular to the direction of landing. If it is not enough of a wind to show up it probably doesn't matter.

Tim

As others mentioned...slow circle watching GPS ground speed. I do this even when it is mostly calm because 4 mph doesn't make much of a difference in flying around low but it can be a huge help on the nose versus the tail when landing in off-airport conditions, especially involving ice.


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Usually you only want to land one way or the opposite in the same spot. Fly both at a chosen indicated airspeed and compare gps ground speed. You can easily tell a tiny breeze this way. If it's a cross wind your ass should tell you that. If not ask the sheep to report any cross wind once he gets his ass in line.

Great advice so far. Water is as easy as it gets, land into the smooth side. Look at the trees, top of leaf is darker than bottom. If you see light green than the wind is on your tail, dark wind is on the nose. This takes some time to train the eye but once it is done it is easy. You can feel the wind on your tail if you pay attention. If things are coming up slow and you are waiting to pull flaps than the wind is on the nose. If you feel like you are behind the plane than the wind is on the tail. If you feel the drift (great advice) you have some wind that you should respect. Every time I landed with a big tailwind I could FEEL it was not right!! As I have more hours I have come to understand that the plane is trying to tell me something. If it don't feel right go around and think about it. Just because a plane lands before you does not mean it is right, in several ways!!! As you fly pay attention to what the wind is doing and how it effect the things on the ground. I have seen the sock point down the runway from both ends on more than one runway. The wind don't care how long the runway is!! It can be solid as a railroad track or like pushing a shopping cart backward. Just FEEL THE FORCE!!!!
DENNY

Use the force Denny Skywalker.