JP,

What the...
Rats... I must admit, you won that one
Doc, fwd the balance of the savings to JP!

Cary wrote:In the meanwhile, I cheated a little. I took the airplane out and practiced at different approach speeds. I discovered that with a light load, just me and 3/4 tanks, I could easily and safely approach at 55 knots. Much slower, and the nose would drop on touchdown, even with a very soft touchdown. .
Cary

Hi Cary,

I agree, nothing is going to trump proficiency, and consistency. But IMHO, those are not mutually exclusive to aircraft performance. You are in essence saying fix your flying and to heck with the plane? I am of the opinion that you must exact performance from yourself, and you should treat your airplane no differently.

I suspect the reason Mike PM'd you is because the whole Robertson thing has been debated ad infinitum.... He has great experience in it, and understands how to utilize it, it's merits and it's weakness's. I own one, and have flown a few more, and am trying to gain on him. By your own admission you have not, so I will add that in the above quote, you clearly extracted most or all of what you could out of the airplane to show your partner what could be done, yet the speeds you quote are still over the top for the same airplane Robertson equipped flying at gross.

Having recently flown one, I am currently of the opinion that a straight tailed C182 RSTOL, will follow the average Cub driver anywhere he chooses, save the boulder piles. I have no doubt that a big engined 182 of this flavor would smoke the competition in a Valdez type setting.
Of course none of this came to me as too much of a surprise, as I own it's sister ship, an RSTOL 180. As to other wing mods, I can say unequivocally , it takes both WingX and Sportsman to reach the RSTOL performance , and they are good mods .

Having said all that, you are correct, it is not in my estimation something that is needed for this application, nor is it a mod that is for everybody.
It is clearly not the airplane the OP dreams of, and there are many many others to choose from (including the OP's dream plane) that will easily fit the bill here. Thus my suggestion to keep chasing his dream, while honing his skill.

Take care, Rob

Rob wrote:

Cary wrote:In the meanwhile, I cheated a little. I took the airplane out and practiced at different approach speeds. I discovered that with a light load, just me and 3/4 tanks, I could easily and safely approach at 55 knots. Much slower, and the nose would drop on touchdown, even with a very soft touchdown. .
Cary

Hi Cary,

I agree, nothing is going to trump proficiency, and consistency. But IMHO, those are not mutually exclusive to aircraft performance. You are in essence saying fix your flying and to heck with the plane? I am of the opinion that you must exact performance from yourself, and you should treat your airplane no differently.

I suspect the reason Mike PM'd you is because the whole Robertson thing has been debated ad infinitum.... He has great experience in it, and understands how to utilize it, it's merits and it's weakness's. I own one, and have flown a few more, and am trying to gain on him. By your own admission you have not, so I will add that in the above quote, you clearly extracted most or all of what you could out of the airplane to show your partner what could be done, yet the speeds you quote are still over the top for the same airplane Robertson equipped flying at gross.

Having recently flown one, I am currently of the opinion that a straight tailed C182 RSTOL, will follow the average Cub driver anywhere he chooses, save the boulder piles. I have no doubt that a big engined 182 of this flavor would smoke the competition in a Valdez type setting.
Of course none of this came to me as too much of a surprise, as I own it's sister ship, an RSTOL 180. As to other wing mods, I can say unequivocally , it takes both WingX and Sportsman to reach the RSTOL performance , and they are good mods .

Having said all that, you are correct, it is not in my estimation something that is needed for this application, nor is it a mod that is for everybody.
It is clearly not the airplane the OP dreams of, and there are many many others to choose from (including the OP's dream plane) that will easily fit the bill here. Thus my suggestion to keep chasing his dream, while honing his skill.

Take care, Rob

I think we're on the same page, and I was off base denigrating the RSTOL without any experience with it. I don't think there's a thing wrong with improving an airplane's performance with modifications, once the pilot has the skills and proficiency to wring all of a stock airplane's performance out of it. I do think many pilots leave money on the table, though, by not honing their own abilities, instead relying on modifications to substitute.

It's a little like when I was a 10 year old kid, overweight and not an athlete of any kind. One of the shoe companies (Keds, maybe?) had an ad targeting kids that implied that if he were to buy their shoes, any kid could outrun his buddies. Ma, being mucho wiser than I was, said that if I wanted to run faster, I'd have to get in better physical shape first, then if I still wanted them, she'd consider the shoes. I don't remember ever getting those shoes.

On the other hand, while it's not a "necessary" modification, I sure do like my AOA gauge. And that's another issue that has certainly been "debated ad infinitum", right?

Cary

havnt read all the replies to this one so Im probably doubling up here but firstly like your first reply I would avoid if possible large trees down the sides of the runway. firstly you are adding (while not the end of the world but a consideration all the same) something that can really mess with you winds, and secondly youve added something thats going to really ruin your day if you bugger it up. Im not saying you will but you have to be prepared for the fact that you might.

and RV 9 probably would do the job but looking at your more bush/STOL machines will increase your margins. In regular operations its not always about what can actually get in and out of the strip but more a question of how much can I have spare, again for reasons based around when conditions either arnt ideal or dont go quite to plan.

If you want something with a bit of room and a bit of pace Ill be another one pointing the finger at either a 180 or a Maule, though a modified 182 may be good option to if you prefer the little wheel on the front. Though Id also be having a very serious look into a Bearhawk. if you can find a good one. Personally I think they are substantially better than a Maule in good cross wind, they can haul more and they are a fantastic STOL aircraft.

contactflying wrote:You got us, Hotrod 180. But the feet of those who have not have had it ever on the mind. Thus the tail wagging.

It's called flying it until it's stopped.

OregonMaule wrote:Just buy a Maule. I do have a dog in the fight. Make sure to be a real pilot and get the little wheel on the correct end.
Cheers...Rob

Hey there........

JP256 wrote:PS – I just learned that the land next door to me (which has plenty of room for a 1200-1500 foot grass runway) may be up for sale... Would it be completely ridiculous to sell my current house / property, and build a new one right next door, so I can have a runway at home? Anyone have some convincing arguments for my non-flying wife? Anyone?

What did you end up doing? I bought adjacent land and built my 2500' runway and love it, and that's before taking into consideration the hangar rent I'm saving from paying at the airport I had to drive 45 minutes each way to get to before.

EastTexasPilot wrote:

JP256 wrote:PS – I just learned that the land next door to me (which has plenty of room for a 1200-1500 foot grass runway) may be up for sale... Would it be completely ridiculous to sell my current house / property, and build a new one right next door, so I can have a runway at home? Anyone have some convincing arguments for my non-flying wife? Anyone?

What did you end up doing? I bought adjacent land and built my 2500' runway and love it, and that's before taking into consideration the hangar rent I'm saving from paying at the airport I had to drive 45 minutes each way to get to before.

Well, I had told the owner that I wanted it, and to please contact me first if he ever decided to sell it... I saw the "For Sale" sign being erected, and put in a call to the realtor to make what I thought was a fairly generous offer, only to learn that my buddy (another neighbor) had already snatched it up before it even went on the market. He paid WAY less than my offer, but it turns out that he and the previous owner were both retired firefighters, which apparently meant more than the additional $50K I would have paid him. So that was the end of that idea...

The question I would have, is how much and how many you want to take with you out of the 1200’ strip. The mission determines the plane, hard to argue with a skywagon, but not every mission requires it and not every budget accommodates it.