I have little to no knowledge of the 80's taylorcraft. Considering one with the 118hp engine as a TW time builder. Anything I need to be aware of? Not much out there that I can find on them.

A 4place faster plane fits my mission better but to build 100+ more hrs in the TW it might make sense for a cheaper plane then move up.

Very good choice if you ask me, only negative, if it is one, like many types 2 seat side by side airplanes visibility is a bit limited looking out to the sides. Otherwise, great flying airplane!

G44

A friend of mine has one, and it's a great plane. His only negative comment has been that parts are sometimes hard to find compared to the older T-crafts or Cubs.

I keep getting hung up on wanting to take 2 people and a dog or some mountain bikes.. but that costs a lot more$$.. Sounds like a nice airplane, its in SD up on Barnstormers. ~800ish hrs.

Indirect comparison, but my time-builder was a 65 Hp BC-12D. Loved it, and felt like it made me learn a lot about flying. Still miss it sometimes. Like the above comment, viz is limited depending on your height, so definitely try one on for size.

I learned to fly in one about that year when it was brand new. Dealer put it on line the day it showed up, I started flying it the next day. Good memories. Great airplane except, I am 6'5" so had to take out the seat cushion and sit in the canvas sling. After solo I would seat in the middle and use the 2 outside rudder pedals. Sure had a lot of fun.

Doug

I've owned 4 Taylorcrafts, that probably makes me somewhat of an educated person on the type. Others are far more advanced than I. However, I feel safe saying:

The T-craft is a great choice for time building and skill building. You will not find one good pilot who regretted their time in the T-craft or what the old girl taught them.

There is a wood bar sewn into the front of the seat sling, that can be un-bolted from the fuselage and then un-rolled to let the sling drop down an inch or two. Or rolled up a little tighter for a shorter pilot.

Putting the skylight mod into the Taylorcraft is well worthwhile. You get an inch or two more headroom, and a huge huge increase in visibility. The skylight turns it into a whole new airplane.

The F series Taylorcraft gives up some of the light, balanced, "sportscar" handling of the B series, because of the longer engine mount. A heavier engine further forward, balanced by the battery behind the baggage compartment. More mass inertia around the CG in the pitch axis. In return, you get a much larger baggage compartment and a significant increase in power. The F series are a little heavier, which takes out a little bit of the "floaty-ness" of the older airplanes.

The F-21 has room for two big people. Two fairly big dogs can fit in the baggage compartment. My buddy Jim Brewer in Anchorage flies the F-21 with his dogs all the time. I'm guessing your mountain bikes can fit if you remove the front wheels, but I have not measured this. But no, it is definitely, absolutely, unequivocably NOT a Cessna size cabin.

The T-craft is an utterly standard, normal, typical steel tube airplane. Once you get past the Mustang vs. Caamaro personality yelling, cursing, and insulting references, the truth is that any Cub or Champ or Stinson or Stearman mechanic can work on one just fine.

There are parts that you cannot buy new anymore. But all of these parts can be repaired using 43.13 methods and practices. If the lower engine cowling is missing, that will be more of a problem, because I believe the F-21 cowls were still stamped with a curve in them. If I'm remembering right, the F-22 airplanes used flat wrapped lower cowlings that were less attractive but just flat aluminum. But the tail surfaces, controls, landing gears... it's all just steel tube and sheet metal stuff like any other fabric taildragger.

Univair and Aircraft Spruce carry the nose cowlings I believe. Those are stamped also.

The F-21 or any 85+ horsepower T-craft will make a wonderful little light-to-medium duty back country airplane. The VG's will make a worthwhile difference, mostly in low-speed control. You will go faster and further on the same power and fuel in a T-craft than the equivalent Cub, because the basic airframe is cleaner. More miles per gallon.

Once you have figured out how to use the forward slip maneuver correctly, in calm air, flying into flat unobstructed strips, the T-craft can operate from almost, but not quite, as short of a strip as an un-flapped J-3 or PA-11 Cub. However, an un-flapped T-craft cannot match the STOL ability of a flapped Cub. A flapped T-craft (F-22) can get really close on the same power, but there were only a handful of flapped F-22's built.

The place where the T-craft starts to fall short in STOL flying is when you are flying into short strips with obstacles and/or gusty winds. Throwing the T-craft into and out of forward slips every two seconds to match rapidly changing gusts is difficult , and the T-craft airframe is too clean for really serious work in these conditions, dropping in over treelines, etc. This is the main reason that Cubs are preferred by working bush pilots.

For your use, however... as a time builder, skill-sharpener, and a recreational back country airplane where you are not forced to fly into 99th percentile extreme conditions for business... the F-21 is an exceptional value. There is a thriving, educated community of Taylorcraft owners and pilots who are eager to help and mentor you. And they're quite a bit less surly and prickly as some other bushplane type clubs I've run into.

Thanks, I need to have the seller take a picture of the baggage.. I was only aware of older T-crafts that did not have much baggage. I do have a number of bush friends that got their time in taylorcrafts.

Really, I am deciding between a Maule M7-235 or this F21. The Taylorcraft would just be a stepping stone and a lot less of a debt.. but my other then skill sharpening/time building the Maule fits my mission. Wanting a plane newer than 1980 in hopes there is less hidden surprises and a bit easier on the MX. Love the 180's but 'cheap' ones I know will come with a lot of work and I dont have the skills or patience Mountain Matt and BigRenna are doing on their awesome 180s. Rans S-20 raven would be a great compromise but cant pull $120k for a plane right now.. no matter the savings in operating, its still a lot more acquisition. I am off on a tangent now.

You nailed it EZ

In my brief 1 year 118 hrs sojourn into the T-Craft world, I'll never forget one takeoff coming back from the Arlington fly-in. Full fuel, camping gear, sea level, and a sustained climbout of 700+ fpm for several K feet, pretty damn good for 65 HP! And a 60 year old 65 hp at that! And then a solid 85-90 mph cruise at MAYBE 4 gph, Hard to beat, still. My S-7S is best described as T-Craft like, but with 100 geared HP, flaps, and I mean that as a compliment That F-21 sounds real sweet, and yeah the baggage area in them is huge. Something about that T-Craft airfoil, pure magic.

I have the F-22 the F 21 is just a rebuild of the 19 with the bigger engine if 21 more maneuverable than a 22 but yes the flaps are nice everything said is also correct very good plane if you can learn to fly it well it will do you good down the road to bigger and better things one of the best trainers you can buy my opinion

I will make just a general comment here, I have worked with a few pilots who had medium to high powered planes and had a lot of trouble because they got to rely on power to get them out of trouble instead of good pilotage.
If you get proficient in a light weight, lower powered plane you will become very good at FLYING not just in hanging on to the motor. This is why a really good pilot can take a plain old cub (J3) or a Tcrate and can just do anything with it.
It is not unreasonable to buy a cheap to fly plane and spend the rest of your money on gas. Have fun.

Love mine for the money closest thing you'll get to a super cub after all if there was no CG Taylor there probably wouldn't have been a piper cub

shorton wrote:I will make just a general comment here, I have worked with a few pilots who had medium to high powered planes and had a lot of trouble because they got to rely on power to get them out of trouble instead of good pilotage.
If you get proficient in a light weight, lower powered plane you will become very good at FLYING not just in hanging on to the motor. This is why a really good pilot can take a plain old cub (J3) or a Tcrate and can just do anything with it.
It is not unreasonable to buy a cheap to fly plane and spend the rest of your money on gas. Have fun.

+1

I've never flown a T Cart on wheels, but on floats, my little BC-12/Edo 1320's was a wonderful trainer and did an outstanding job of teaching how to feel an airplane with one, not two fingers.

Gump

One of the days that I was supposed to have an aerobatics lesson some 34 years ago, I arrived to find that both Decathlons were down for one reason or another, but the adjoining FBO had a brand new F21, and it and one of their instructors, a young woman who looked like a junior in high school, was available, if I wanted some TD time. She and I went out, and that hour was way too short! What a fun little airplane! Yeah, vis out the sides was poor (I'm not all that tall, but I have a long torso), and it had a whole lot less power than the TR182 I was partnered in at the time, or either of the Decs. But so much fun!

Cary