There is discussion on the SC.Org site about next years fly ins. I posted the below comments. Its purely an idea...thoughts?

This was posted at SC.org:
Hey Cal, There is a new wrinkle regarding scheduling Johnson Creek. The Idaho Transportation Department has imposed a new requirement for the scheduling of events like ours. They are requiring a two week interval (rest) between the BCP and SCORG events to allow the grass to get watered and mowed, the grounds maintained, and the inhabitants of the white house to recover. We are in discussions with BCP (Zane, Bryan, Matt and Rob) trying to work something out but don't have a resolution yet. I would extend an invitation to everyone here to weigh in on a possible solution. DK


I posted the following:
Would be really cool to combine events and have a bit more structure on the fly outs with some plans etc., keeping everyone on the same page in respect to the over use issues, etc. Each event gets 100 planes or so. So 200 at JC for the week is very doable is it not? Seems like a no brainer, not to mention many of the 100 planes at each event are some of the same folks anyway. Maybe we would end up with 150 planes total...maybe more, hence the idea of a bit more structure. (not to mention a bit more structure on the fly outs could be a good thing) (If you don't like structure you can always fly to idaho another time).

The idea of one big huge raffle would be pretty cool as well. Betting we could get even more sponsors to participate. I have donated a week long heli ski trip in Alaska the past two years and it seems to have gone over well. Folks can combine the heli trip in Cordova with the AK Airman's show in Anchorage and then hop over to Valdez for the STOL event. That would be a long three weeks for some but what a good reason to fly to AK...I don't know.... just throwing an idea out. I am sure some will despise the idea of combining the two, structure, the whole works. Again, this is just an idea so those that disagree, don't get your panties in a wad.

June 10-16th would be a great time and keep in line with the past events

AKT

I saw that and was curious that Dave was talking to BCP but we'd seen nothing over here yet. Whenever it is, I'll try to go, though I liked having right behind SC's flyin so I could try to do both in one trip.

How 'bout one two week event??

1st I am going to vent and rant. When I calm down I will have more constructive ideas.

Set me straight here. "The Idaho Transportation Department has imposed a new requirement for the scheduling of events like ours. They are requiring a two week interval (rest) between the BCP and SCORG events to allow the grass to get watered and mowed, the grounds maintained"

That's a bunch of crap. There are people who come from across the country who want to hit both events, that screws them. Monday after SC there might be 10 planes left. If you can't clean 2 showers and 6 shitters in in a day your a retard. I can dump all the garbage cans in 1-2 hours. I know we can hire people to cut wood. I think SC does just that.

I'm pretty selfish and I admit it. I am not concerned about what the government wants. I have never seen a problem with the grass. When you become a caretaker there you know the deal is. It is a WORKING! vacation.

Option 1
So lets put in one request with SC.org for a flyin that last from Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

Option 2
We do not have a fly in, we just show up.

Option 3
10 of us camp at Mile High
10 at Vines
10 at Solider Bar
Then just pop into JC for showers

Option 4
Contact Flying B, Mackey Bar and see if they want to host us for a price. I would rather pay a private business than take crap from IDOT Kind of pisses me off for all those $100 bills left in the donation box that IDOT wants to screw with my summer fun.

Option 5
Switch the offical BCP fly in to Caveman Ranch

I like option 1 or 2

G'Day

yeah... not gonna be too many years before Idaho is closed to private aircraft... Are you kidding me... Sc and BCP all at the same strip... why not include 180's too... and I don't want to see Caveman become like this monstrosity.. maybe Caveman does but last year was just about enough for me.. any bigger and I'll pass on that one too...They have one outside shitter at Caveman and one shower inside... with I think two shitters in the lodge... I'm passing on Austin this year too although I feel bad about it but it too has gotten out of hand...as far as I'm concerned Johnson Creek is only for me after all the fly ins and wanna be's have left...I've been going there for over 12 years for the fishing and solitude... and I'll go again next year but I'll time it for a minimum amount of planes as my neighbors... Hell the last BCP fly in this year looked like a typical So cal airport on a weekend... I don't have to fly to Idaho to get that...

As you know Butch on the Monday thru Thursday before or after a fly in is very reasonable. For a guy who doesn't like masses of asses you sure picked a bad place to live. (pun intended)

G'Day

OregonMaule wrote:1st I am going to vent and rant. When I calm down I will have more constructive ideas.

The thing in life...when you find yourself in a deep hole, quit digging. Just a hint.

IDOT provides deluxe facilities, staff, internet, showers, electricity, shelter, and transportation. For (basically) free. The sentiments are a bit like the whiny "Get the Gummint outta my Medicare" crowd. This latest example is how I'll describe the concept of 'irony' to my nephew if he asks.

The gatherings may be too large to fit into long term plans. Perhaps folks should look into private venues, like West Fork Lodge, etc., or peripheral locations like Salmon, Hamilton, Cascade, etc. as a base. Pretty much everyone I met back there was expressing concerns over the size of both events.

I won't be at Johnson Creek next year...that problem solved!

lesuther wrote: Pretty much everyone I met back there was expressing concerns over the size of both events.

Just curious, who was concerned, and about what specifically? This year's BCP fly-in was slightly larger than last year's, but neither this year nor last did I sense that JC was over capacity. Never been to the SC or Cessna fly-ins, so can't speak to those...

I'm sure all the people selling us gas, beer, food, all manner camp supplies and carting out our broken toys with helicopters will appreciate what IDOT is doing to preserve the grass. That money goes round and round the community. 2-3 effn months a year it is busy. Asses

lesuther wrote:

OregonMaule wrote:1st I am going to vent and rant. When I calm down I will have more constructive ideas.

The thing in life...when you find yourself in a deep hole, quit digging. Just a hint.

IDOT provides deluxe facilities, staff, internet, showers, electricity, shelter, and transportation. For (basically) free. The sentiments are a bit like the whiny "Get the Gummint outta my Medicare" crowd. This latest example is how I'll describe the concept of 'irony' to my nephew if he asks.

The gatherings may be too large to fit into long term plans. Perhaps folks should look into private venues, like West Fork Lodge, etc., or peripheral locations like Salmon, Hamilton, Cascade, etc. as a base. Pretty much everyone I met back there was expressing concerns over the size of both events.

I'll disagree with free. The government gets money from tax payers, even out of state aviators pay sales tax 6%, aviation fuel tax .07 cents, Cigarette tax Rate: $0.57/package of 20, motel, hotel tax 2%, beer .15 cents a gallon, wine .45 cents a gallon.

I really like several of Rob's suggestions, none as much as the "masses of asses" comment though

I attended both weekends for the second year in a row. Which is just good luck on my part. I plan for the SC weekend then if life throws me a snag, I can fall to the next. When all goes well I make both.

I really do not like masses of asses, but these are unique gatherings. We see friends at these events that we do not get to see all year otherwise. I have 50 other weekends a year that I can get all the solitude I want. It's nice to gather once in a while, and none of us should be made to feel guilty for doing so. Most of us have relatives that died to give us the freedoms we enjoy, so I say go enjoy them! If I died protecting the awesome freedoms we have and then everyone just sat around bithching, I'd be pissed.

At the BCP weekend there was a very nice couple from Switzerland there in a Maule they just bought. That's right, Switzerland Damn nice people. He fly's rescue helicopters in the Alps, no shit....... Anyway, I had the awesome opportunity to take him flying on Saturday morning. We went to the Big Creek drainage and had a ball. I wish I had a recording of our conversation, he was living his dream just being there. We are very fortunate.

People come from all over the globe to enjoy our backcountry flying. And these fly in's are not masses of asses, they are good people with the same interests and passions that we all share. So as we discuss next year, lets not feel guilty for gathering. Screw that, the grass can get watered when we leave. And who comes to a fly in, and then bitches about how many people are there. News Flash..... Fly In = People

If you hate masses of asses, great. My dead relatives are fine with that, just don't come to the fly in and then bitch about it. And your ideas will probably not be a huge help in planning next years event.

What you said UtahMaule X2

I'm not bitching about it.. I wasn't there.. I go for the fishing ... as well as the flying.. been to many fly ins there... 180's, SC, Maule fly in , and BCP.. It's just gotten to be too many people for my taste.. every year there's some incident or mishap now by someone who should know better or has no business flying in the mountains with the lack of experience or know how they should have...I don't begrudge anyone who wants to go to them but when you propose lumping two of them together it seems to me a bit much... each one of them brings over 100 aircraft which park and line both sides of a 5000 foot runway.. add at least half that many and over 150 aircraft and their folks using 2 showers and two shitters... gets a bit much if you ask me. I've got a lot of friends who I've met at them and I enjoy their company and seeing them too but I'll wait till a few campers are there...

hicountry wrote:I won't be at Johnson Creek next year...that problem solved!

We will miss you Ernie, maybe you will reconsider by then.

Cheers

OregonMaule wrote:As you know Butch on the Monday thru Thursday before or after a fly in is very reasonable. For a guy who doesn't like masses of asses you sure picked a bad place to live. (pun intended)

G'Day

well Rob we weren't talking about the monday before or after... I know about those days... Hell after this years BCP fly in there were about 3 planes on the video cam... a few more there this week but not many... I know also about where I live... i was just saying i don't need to fly all the way to Idaho to have the same thing where I camp... but I DID enjoy caveman with it's 58 aircraft and great gathering of folks I've met over the years.. but if you folks want to partner with SC and make it like LAX go right ahead... Geez BCP has changed since I joined!!!!!!!!!

i vote for AKT's and robs ideas 'bout doing one week for all. totally optional u guys, this is Idaho. im a local and am in and out of lots of strips there quite a lot, wx permitting. there have been a/c wrecks there forever, and it will continue...get over it. flying back there is and will continue to be a high risk endeavor, at best. people from all over the globe come here for a reason, it is COOL...! if lots of people and a/c offend u, come at a different time, or dont come at all. wilderness, at least the frank, is great when it allows us, the hikers, horse people, floaters, to access it. any and all should have access, and IMO out of state and out of country people have as much right as i do...most states outside of AK dont have anything like this. i vote for JC either way. those that dont come, that is their choice, but they'll miss a whale of a good time...!

Hey - wannabes need to be welcome too. If you believe the GA is dying thing - we should be doing anything we can to attract people - and let them learn from the more experienced - and network. These things a are a big learning experience for a good number of us. And it's effing fun!

I LIKE gatherings - especially when we all have similar interests. It ain't LAX - and it's easy to avoid if that's not your deal. The nice thing about BCP is that it's not type-specific. Although I'd like to meet a bunch of the supercub guys - I'd feel like a tool dropping in there with a cessna product. Maybe supercubbers don't want to mingle with the BCP.

I say combine the events - and lets paint big dots on the grass and land 'em 3 deep. (j/k - wag your wings).

The super Cub guys and gals are great. There are a bunch on bcp too.

It was my first time at JC and all the strips I landed at up there... I'd love to see more noobs like me get into BC flying. In fact, I'm using the remainder of the airshow season to share it with others. I hope these fly-ins actually GROW.

Do we need to go to JC every year? RAF has some cool spots in Montana... Perhaps we select a cool different spot each year. Logistically more difficult I realize......

I like big fly-ins. I haven't missed an AirVenture since 1997. It's become something like a family reunion of sorts for me. It's a big fly-in, but it's also a gathering place for hundreds or even thousands of groups. I think it's a great venue for it all.

Despite frustrating (non-safety) mechanical issues, I completely enjoyed meeting folks and doing some flying at the BCP JC fly-in. However it's done, let's keep doing it! I tend to ignore the bitches and complainers as they become inaudible as soon as I light the fire in the WilgaBeast.

Cory.