Backcountry Pilot • 2015 - Is there an Electric BCP Bush Plane in Your Future?

2015 - Is there an Electric BCP Bush Plane in Your Future?

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2015 - Is there an Electric BCP Bush Plane in Your Future?

I am just wondering if there are any electric aircraft gurus here on BCP. I am not buying, building, or planning on piloting one any time soon. The idea nevertheless, like Elon Musk’s Tesla motor cars, fascinates me.

Aviation journalist Dan Johnson over on his website recently had an article showcasing the Chinese made Rui Xiang RX1E. It is a fully constructed and “ Chinese Certified “ aircraft and not a kit.

Rui Xiang RX1E - Certified Electric Two-Seater By Dan Johnson, February 12, 2015
http://www.bydanjohnson.com/

"The aircraft will fly about 90 minutes on a full charge," at a cost of about one dollar. "Cruising speed is about 86 knots. The price is expected to be about $163,000."


Rui Xiang RX1E Image
Rui Xiang RX1E Image
Yuneec E430 Image

I’d love to see a small LSA Electric Kitplane by CubCrafters, Rans, Belite, or some other manufacturer. Hopefully an American manufacturer. =D> Maybe the FAA could even add a few pounds to the 1320 lb. LSA limit much like they adjust for planes with floats. That might help to encourage development and sales. A full EAB electric would be cool too. Tesla Aircraft Corporation…hmmm … now that sounds interesting.

Elon Musk talking about Electric Aircraft at MIT AeroAstro Centennial Symposium
Youtube Video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx3auTD85Fw

As battery technology continues to advance, electric planes will surely begin to appear, perhaps even in the back country. So...any BCP folks following all this electric stuff ?? What do you think? Hey...rumor has it that somewhere in Southern Idaho somebody is building an all electric Bearhawk Patrol....come on and share those pictures... 8) we dare ya...double dare ya. One thing for sure...no electric starter needed...
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Re: 2015 - Is there an Electric BCP Bush Plane in Your Futur

I would love to see a plane like that!! If you could get it up to 4 hours of endurance it would be great (should happen is next 20 year) One of the major complaints with planes is noise!! Just think of flying over the National parks with the window open at 300 ft and not making noise to bother anyone else (take away noise and no reason to stay high) This is a story where everyone will win!! Well most everyone there might be a few varmints that have learned to run for the trees at the sound of a cub, they might not do so well :wink:
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Re: 2015 - Is there an Electric BCP Bush Plane in Your Futur

Interesting point about the noise Denny. My only rebuttal is that I'd say more noise comes from the prop then the motor on a lot of planes. I know when I hear a plane coming it's usually the prop sound that gives it away. On the smaller LSAs with shorter props it seems to not be as bad, but I would think you are going to want to stay in the 80+ inch range on a bearhawk type aircraft.
I am not an engineer by any means, just giving my 2 cents.
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Re: 2015 - Is there an Electric BCP Bush Plane in Your Futur

8-10 years ago my Buddy Carl Gerker (EX-FAA inspector) signed off on Chinese battery powered "airplane" at Camarrio ,Ca. airport for it's 50 hr. test flights. They trailered it in and proceeded to put 80 lb. pilot in front seat. Seems the endurance was hour or 2 at 60-70 mph never venturing farther that maybe 10-15 miles. They took it to Oshkosh to show it off (by truck and trailer) more like a powered glider than airplane. Think it's max altitude was 3-4 thousand feet ,wouldn't make it in western mountains.
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Re: 2015 - Is there an Electric BCP Bush Plane in Your Futur

I don't see an electric bush plane any time soon, but electric motor gliders are already a reality. I think one of those may actually be in my future. One I get all of the airplane camping out of my system, I can see a time when I just want a 1-2 hour flying fix close to my home base. A motor glider would fit that bill perfectly. With a self launching motor glider, the batteries aren't pressed into continuous service, so current technology works pretty well. No miracle breakthrough in energy storage is needed for these modest flyers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmnczog46KE
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Re: 2015 - Is there an Electric BCP Bush Plane in Your Futur

Flyhound wrote:I don't see an electric bush plane any time soon, but electric motor gliders are already a reality. I think one of those may actually be in my future. One I get all of the airplane camping out of my system, I can see a time when I just want a 1-2 hour flying fix close to my home base. A motor glider would fit that bill perfectly. With a self launching motor glider, the batteries aren't pressed into continuous service, so current technology works pretty well. No miracle breakthrough in energy storage is needed for these modest flyers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmnczog46KE


Fly hound, I've been watching that Archeopteryx for several years now. Seems like a really neat glider, with lots of options for launching. That electric self-launch pack pushes the price (today's exchange rate for Swiss Francs) at just over $113,000. Good time to be buying Francs and Euros...!!
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Re: 2015 - Is there an Electric BCP Bush Plane in Your Futur

Regarding a future electric Bush Plane vs just motor glider, maybe some pilots just need a 2 hour flight endurance plus some "reserve" . If endurance and power requirements are modest, maybe an electric Rans S7S might be feasible.

I am in the greater Washington, DC area and some folks just commute 20 miles a day in their car, and for them an electric car with a 100 mile range works just fine. If batteries can spin an electric motor for three hours at full blast on a 1320 lb. LSA, then maybe that electric Bush Plane is not that far off.

Now cover those wings, fuse top, and horizontal stab with a high efficiency photo voltaic layer. Also, after you have landed on that gravel bed, maybe a small pop out auxiliary wind generator could be deployed on the ground to also recharge the batteries, Finally, maybe as an emergency reserve, a very high efficiency additional small onboard fuel cell type battery could provide an extra 15 minutes of SOS power in a crunch, or in case of a primary battery failure.

A possible Hybrid approach may also be in the cards, at least in the transition as battery efficiencies continue to evolve.
Image
Motor head: The new plane is the first to have a hybrid drivetrain Details are in the article below.

This article : http://www.technologyreview.com/news/516576/once-a-joke-battery-powered-airplanes-are-nearing-reality/ notes:


Once a Joke, Battery-Powered Airplanes Are Nearing Reality.

Two things have changed. The amount of energy that batteries can store is steadily improving, and this looks likely to continue as they’re developed for use in portable electronics and electric vehicles, Bradley says. Meanwhile, the technologies needed to integrate batteries and electric motors with conventional engines are getting smaller, lighter, and more efficient. Siemens demonstrated an earlier version of its hybrid airplane in 2011, but it was too heavy to be practical. For the new plane, Siemens decreased the weight of the electric motor, power electronics, and gears by 100 kilograms to bring its cargo and passenger capacity up to the level of similarly sized small planes.

In airplanes, a hybrid electric design improves efficiency mainly by making it possible to use a relatively small gas-powered engine designed to run at its most efficient at cruising speeds. The battery and electric motor provide the extra power needed for takeoff and ascent. The batteries also make it possible to recover energy during descent much the way hybrid cars capture energy during braking (propellers spin a generator). And, as batteries improve, they will provide more and more of the energy on board.

Electric motors confer other advantages. They can be mounted in unusual places on an airplane, which can be used to improve aerodynamics. They can also be steered: angled upward, for example, during takeoff to get a plane off the ground faster. In flight, the motor could be pointed left or right to steer the plane, eliminating the need for a rudder. These design changes, together with the efficiency of the hybrid propulsion, could help decrease fuel consumption by half, he says (see “‘Hybrid Wing’ Uses Half the Fuel of a Standard Airplane”).
Some Additional links on Fuel Cells :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell#Airplanes
and
http://www.cleantechinvestor.com/portal/fuel-cells/5382-fuel-cells-in-aircraft.html
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Re: 2015 - Is there an Electric BCP Bush Plane in Your Futur

Fly hound, I've been watching that Archeopteryx for several years now. Seems like a really neat glider, with lots of options for launching. That electric self-launch pack pushes the price (today's exchange rate for Swiss Francs) at just over $113,000. Good time to be buying Francs and Euros...!!


CapnMike: Yeah, $113K is a lot to spend on a toy with marginal utility, but the Archaeopteryx design is so stinking elegant. My challenge is that I have cognac tastes with a near-beer, or home brew budget. Perhaps something like the EMG from Adventure Aviation would be a more practical fit with my wallet. They've been talking about a $10K price target for a design that is still in development. I doubt they'll achieve that $10K goal, but their final product cost point is likely to be well south of $113K!

I'm also a big fan of Rans designs. I took a motorcycle trip out to Hays Kansas long before the S20 came out and looked long and hard at the S6S. I finally had to admit that building one of those would cost about the same as buying a Maule, and it wouldn't have anywhere near the utility, or the ease of resale. So, being a practical guy that reluctantly pays attention to facts, I bought a Maule. Randy Schlitter from RANS has written a lot about his interest in an electric motor glider, so something may come from his prolific design table before I pull the trigger on my next flying toy. It is an interesting category to watch. Here's the scoop on the homely EMG:
http://www.electricmotorglider.com/
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Re: 2015 - Is there an Electric BCP Bush Plane in Your Futur

Flyhound wrote:


Randy Schlitter from RANS has written a lot about his interest in an electric motor glider, so something may come from his prolific design table before I pull the trigger on my next flying toy. It is an interesting category to watch.

I have never met the guy, but I have spoken with him on the phone and watched him for hours in the many internet videos in which he has starred. Randy strikes me as a really nice, low key guy who probably knows 10x as much as his modest and unassuming demeanor suggests. I would not doubt that the Rans Skunkworks has already begun to think about electrics. What is interesting is that there are already battery powered motorcycles, and battery assisted bicycles. Rans of course also has a rich history manufacturing exotic bikes.

Image

I think we will probably first see a hybrid craft with an electric as well as a very light weight high efficiency gasoline motor. I too, like someone else here posted, find the idea of much quieter powered flight very appealing.
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