Thanks for the advice.

I think the strut is a tad over inflated right now. I might lower it a hair. Only two flights with the new setup.

And I also put in a Selkirk extended Baggage to help move cg back.

I always check full control movement. Both before start and during run up.
I have been practicing nose up landings from the get go and filming them with a camera on my tail. Just training to get ready for this change in the plane.
And a tailskid is in the mail.


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mtv wrote:...During EVERY pre flight, perform a complete "wipe out" of the controls....ie: Throw the yoke all the way to the left, then all the way forward, then rotate the yoke all the way to full right aileron, then full back yoke, while holding full right aileron, then go to full left aileron while holding full aft elevator, then move the yoke full forward while holding full left aileron. The reason you need to do this is to detect damage to the firewall, from landing on the nose gear. ...

I'm curious how wiping the controls will reveal firewall damage?

hotrod180 wrote:

mtv wrote:...During EVERY pre flight, perform a complete "wipe out" of the controls....ie: Throw the yoke all the way to the left, then all the way forward, then rotate the yoke all the way to full right aileron, then full back yoke, while holding full right aileron, then go to full left aileron while holding full aft elevator, then move the yoke full forward while holding full left aileron. The reason you need to do this is to detect damage to the firewall, from landing on the nose gear. ...

I'm curious how wiping the controls will reveal firewall damage?

The 172 has a "tunnel" on the firewall. If you tweak the firewall, that tunnel Buckles. If you wipe out the controls on one of these, you may find that the controls are blocked at full aileron as you move the yoke fore and aft, because the control circuits are hitting that buckle.

MTV

mtv wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:

mtv wrote:...During EVERY pre flight, perform a complete "wipe out" of the controls....ie: Throw the yoke all the way to the left, then all the way forward, then rotate the yoke all the way to full right aileron, then full back yoke, while holding full right aileron, then go to full left aileron while holding full aft elevator, then move the yoke full forward while holding full left aileron. The reason you need to do this is to detect damage to the firewall, from landing on the nose gear. ...

I'm curious how wiping the controls will reveal firewall damage?

The 172 has a "tunnel" on the firewall. If you tweak the firewall, that tunnel Buckles. If you wipe out the controls on one of these, you may find that the controls are blocked at full aileron as you move the yoke fore and aft, because the control circuits are hitting that buckle.

MTV

Good to know, thanks for sharing the tip.

IMHO doing this kind of a control check is also important because it will reveal whether some wire bundle, Adel clamp, avionics component, or radio connection has gotten into a position to interfere with full control movement. Even if the firewall is not damaged. A hard landing (that the airframe easily survive) can result in avionics components shifting around and taking their wiring harnesses with them.

On most airplanes, there are more potential conflicts and interference behind the firewall than forward of the firewall. A loose BNC connector or wire bundle caught in the wrong place may be enough to make the aileron chain jump off the sprockets.

Is the tunnel visible? I have been up close to both sides of the firewall and don't remember any tunnel? Just trying to visualize this in my head.




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The position of the ailerons has nothing to do with them hitting the potential buckle in the tunnel. The aileron cables are routed vertically on either side of the vertical, for lack of a better description, post of the control column, makes no difference whether it is a "T" or "U" control column. If you have a Cessna, take a seat out, stick your head under the panel, and you will see just how close the controls are to the firewall and the back of the instruments. In some places any clearance at all is all you will get.

Tim

mtv wrote:I would NOT put the same size tire on the nose as on the mains. I'd use an 8.00x6 on the nose if you're using 8.50s on the mains.

Too easy to land all three same topime. There's a reason that Cessna used a smaller tire size on the nose, you should keep at least close to that relationship.

MTV

I think Mike's advice is spot on.

In my experience with 8.50s on the mains and nose the normal landing view from the cockpit needed to be adjusted to a substantially higher nose attitude in order to avoid wheelbarrowing. The new touchdown attitude works if you're only landing on prepared runways or really smooth off airport places, but it will suck if you're landing on something rough where you want to hold the nose off for as long as possible because you'll be pitched up a lot higher, and it will be harder to see what's in front of you. None of the pilots I know who've flown with 8.50s on all three gear liked the setup.

Not really sure what ones view out the front window or what tire touches down first has anything to do with flying the airplane... unless you can't fly the airplane.

Bdiazair wrote:Not really sure what ones view out the front window or what tire touches down first has anything to do with flying the airplane... unless you can't fly the airplane.

The OP lives in Alaska, which means more than likely at some point, he's going to try landing off airport....gravel bars typically have obstacles, regardless of how smooth the bar itself is....so being able to see over the nose helps.

As to which wheel touches first, with the same size tire on all three, you've set yourself up to land three point, and sometimes its really tough not to put that nose tire down at a little higher speed than you'd like.

I've seen a number of 172s with bent firewalls and some with the nose gear taken right off. Of course, that suggests poor pilot technique, but having just an inch or two extra clearance between that nose tire and the surface at a "normal" landing attitude really helps.

The 206 I flew for a few years was equipped with 8.50s on all three, and it was a real pain in the butt to avoid putting that nose tire down too soon/fast. Replaced the nose tire with a 8.00 x 6.00 and it made a world of difference. I didn't land anywhere different, but it was just a lot easier to protect that nose gear during landings.

MTV

mtv wrote:The 206 I flew for a few years was equipped with 8.50s on all three, and it was a real pain in the butt to avoid putting that nose tire down too soon/fast. Replaced the nose tire with a 8.00 x 6.00 and it made a world of difference. I didn't land anywhere different, but it was just a lot easier to protect that nose gear during landings.

MTV

I had similar experiences with a 206 that had a smaller nosewheel but overserviced front strut. That thing sat on the ground like a taildragger, and I (admittedly a low FW-time guy at the time) had to concentrate to not put the nose on the ground first.

I also agree with the nose wheel size advice. I have done 4 different setups on mine, and tried some different things. The high nose attitude is good for prop clearance, and literally nothing else IMO. On rough terrain I want my nose off/light of course. If it sits nose high, you end up with an increased AoA just trying to get the nose off or at least light, not optimal for the ground acceleration or visibility. Anyway the plane does look good, and not as tail low as I would have guessed.. if you have any issues as discussed here a bit smaller nose might help out. (I run the same smooth 8.50's as mains, and desser's 4 ply 8.00 on the nose)

Bdiazair wrote:Not really sure what ones view out the front window or what tire touches down first has anything to do with flying the airplane... unless you can't fly the airplane.

Call me crazy, but being able to see what's in front of me has always helped my landings. It sucks when you can't see what's in front of you and you miss your landing spot.

As for which tire touches first: when flying a tricycle gear plane I'm a big fan of touching down on the mains first. This technique seems to result in lower maintenance costs and more predictable landing outcomes.

But hey, if you don't need to see what's in front of you when you're landing and landing on your nose wheel works for you, that's great. Sure wouldn't want to fly with you, though.

Cary wrote:

EZFlap wrote:Desser makes an "oversize" 8.00 x 6 that is reportedly 21 inch OD, but it does have grooves in it.

Has anyone tried using RTV to fill in the grooves so you don't pick up rocks?

I'd be willing to bet that the RTV would be thrown out of the grooves by centrifugal force during the first take off.

Cary

This is a old post but there is a product I use to repair cuts in tires and conveyor belts it is made by Belzona. This stuff will stick to a sidewall cut in a radial tractor tire running 6 psi so I am sure if groves in aircraft tire where prepared well it will stick for the life of the tire.