I am currently looking at a local 1948 Aeronca 15AC Sedan and I would like to hear from any Sedan owners on the forum of what their thoughts are of the aircraft? How does the Sedan compare to a Pacer/Maule/Stinson/Cessna 170/180? The one I am looking at has the Continental 145hp and I am curious to know if its worth the expense to convert the plane over to a O-360 if I purchase it? How much does the STC cost? What are the improvements to performance when the Sedan is upgraded to 180hp? Would it be best to use a C/S prop or stay with a fixed pitch prop "Climb or Seaplane" to keep the weight down if using a O-360? Lastly anyone have experience with using VG's on a Sedan? If so, what improvements did they do to the Sedans performance?

Thanks!

The Sedan is a great performing airplane! With the O 360, it's a real tiger. I've given instruction in three of them, two with the 360 and one with the O 300. All on floats. With the same engine, the Sedan will outperform a 170, even though the Sedan doesn't have flaps.

Get in touch with Burl Rogers in Anchorage, AK. Burl owns the type certificate and is working toward building new ones......and he can provide any part you need.

http://www.burlac.com

They are great airplanes.

MTV

I used to look at one with envy that was tied down next to my J-5 at
Fremont Sky Sailing in Calif. Next to old Fremont Drag Strip.
Sort of like getting two CHAMPS for the price of one.
Have not heard of any bad press.

Lets see if this ghost of the past works:
Not something I have tried before.


https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/the- ... edan-14019

And they are HUGE inside. Last time I was out at PAWS their were at least 3 of them on airport. Great airplane in my opinion and are beautiful to look at.

There is a wing spar AD to check for intergranular corrosion in the spar and caps. It requires a bunch of inspection holes or alternatively there is a borescope method that is acceptable that still requires holes to be cut but smaller ones. Certainly not a reason to stay away from the plane but I would really want to make sure that the inspection has been done and done correctly.

If the O-300 was in good shape I'd go fly the heck out of it and see if it works for you.

If you end up getting it a few of us might be a wee bit jealous.....

I would love to have a Sedan. Everyone I have talked to says they are a sweetheart to fly. If they fly half as well as the Champ, not having flaps would not bother me too much.

This topic deserves bringing back the picture from the old thread.

with 180hp it is a fantastic float plane.

As a "I'll be darned" bit, this weekend, Burl explained why the Sedan has no flaps: It turns out the Sedan was designed to have folding wings, which also explains the somewhat complex aileron cable routing and the single wing strut. Turns out hey discovered halfway through that the width of the tail would preclude transport on highways, and abandoned the wing folding mechanism.

MTV

If you want to become excited about owning a Sedan, you only need to read "Wager with the Wind". The Don Sheldon story. During his career Sheldon flew Sedans and, if my memory services me correctly, pulled off a heroic rescue of stranded rafters using the Sedan on floats!

Good luck and post pictures if you decide to pull the trigger! They are indeed cool birds!

Well this looks like a nice addition to the bush plane market:

http://www.burlac.com/aero_sedan.html

I haven't flown one, but they look really cool up close with a super beefy landing gear and an enormous cabin. I hope that they sell.

Fantastic airplanes! The 145 does ok but the 180 really makes a performer out of it. I would love to have a Sedan with a 180 and MT Ultra prop, that think would be incredible!

Scolopax wrote:Well this looks like a nice addition to the bush plane market:

http://www.burlac.com/aero_sedan.html

I haven't flown one, but they look really cool up close with a super beefy landing gear and an enormous cabin. I hope that they sell.

Yeah, I've heard time and again that they are wonderful flyers. I would really like to try one. The flaps thing is never going to NOT be part of the discussion.

Burl's price is appropriate for the new aircraft market of today, but it might be a little high for the kind of people in the market for a Sedan. I hope they sell some.

Al Wright (Wright's Air Service inFairbanks) recently told me they outperform heavy any C-170 and even some 180's he flew. That's with comparable engines and props on all gear. With power they are the best carrying loads. He built up an experimental with a Grove spring gear and Franklin engine but age led him to donate it to the local UofA A&P school. She sits lonely near their facility and I admire it every day I'm nearby. I'd own one.

Gary

Zzz wrote:

Scolopax wrote:Well this looks like a nice addition to the bush plane market:

http://www.burlac.com/aero_sedan.html

I haven't flown one, but they look really cool up close with a super beefy landing gear and an enormous cabin. I hope that they sell.

Yeah, I've heard time and again that they are wonderful flyers. I would really like to try one. The flaps thing is never going to NOT be part of the discussion.

Burl's price is appropriate for the new aircraft market of today, but it might be a little high for the kind of people in the market for a Sedan. I hope they sell some.

Totally agree that the absence of flaps will really make them difficult to sell. Selling a significant quantity of them would require jazzing them up and making them seem modern with avionics, carbon fiber facades, LED lights and flashy paint jobs like the others who are succeeding at selling 1940s technology in today's market.

The potential seems like it's there though. A Lycoming 180, 80" CS prop, four seats, 1250 empty weight and bush capable airframe put it in a hole that's kind of always existed in that market. They are impressive looking machines on an up close inspection. I hope that they do well with it.

An old wolf hunter friend of mine said they were a favorite airplane. He said, "The Sedan wing will always get you home."

One of our local guys has restored something like 5 of them. He generally runs a tight long prop on the 145.

I can tell you from experience that the absence of flaps on the Sedan would be noticed for just a while, before it becomes just one less thing to fiddle with.

I wouldn’t have believed it myself, but true.

MTV

I'd like to see it succeed also, but I'm skeptical. He's been advertising them for a while and I don't think he's sold one yet. He also had expressed an interest in selling the type certificate, but that hasn't succeeded either. My fear is that without Burl Rogers, the Sedan and any support for it goes away. That would be a shame.

So let's say an energetic company buys the business. Where do they fit? There's been talk of of a four place supercub for years. It hasn't happened. I would suggest it's because the demand for it is undefined.

Can a new Sedan compete with a new Maule? Not just on specs, but popularity, support, brand recognition, etc? If you chose the experimental side, could it compete with Bearhawk?

I really like the airplane, and considered one as a less expensive option to my 185, but decided the 185 could also replace my T210.

It should be mentioned that there is an AD for corrosion in the spars on the Sedan. Most of us know this, but it needs to be in this thread for future readers. It requires inspections, and by someone who really knows. It can be very hard to detect, and financially devastating if you find it after you buy the airplane. Repairable, because we still have Burl Rogers supporting them.

Pinecone wrote:So let's say an energetic company buys the business. Where do they fit? There's been talk of of a four place supercub for years. It hasn't happened. I would suggest it's because the demand for it is undefined.

For what it's worth, there's been a 4-place Super Cub STC since the late 70's. Kirk Ellis owns and flys one commercially. I believe Kirk now owns the STC and is partnered with Airframes Alaska, who build the production 4-Place fuselages. Biggest issue is legal useful load; @ 2000lbs GW you're looking at a mere 600lbs.

Airframes is making a 3 and 4 place supercub. They have one flying now.


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I sympathize with anyone trying to make a go of building new light airplanes, particularly in a very small company like Burl’s. Frankly, I suspect the only reason he has opted to offer new Sedans is because he decided some years ago to manufacture parts for the existing fleet. Prior to that, it was virtually impossible to find some parts for these planes.

So, Burl has extended the life of these machines, for which we should be grateful.

Note that Univair (a much larger company) has “adopted several vintage airplanes that weren’t being supported by the original manufacturer. Every time I see these folks at gatherings I thank them for doing so. There would be several orphaned airplanes out there were it not for the efforts of folks like this.

MTV