I am looking for an instrument that will help keep me from becoming a "moose turn" statistic. I've been planning to add an AoA system to my plane and was just about to hit enter on an AlphaSystems unit but it turns out part of their system to tie in flap settings to the display requires a 337. In Canada we don't have 337s so I drove out to chat with my mechanic about the process.

He suggested I take a look at the Aerovonics AV-20. It is less than half the price of the AlphaSystems unit, which makes me a bit nervous. Does anybody have any experience with their AoA system?

I should by end of this month (AV-20-S model), it's in the panel and powers up but we haven't made it to test flights yet due to unrelated delays. So far the display looks cool in my hangar though.

I'd like to hear if anyone has tried it out as well. Based on my conversations with their CEO I'm comfortable with how it works and what happens in strong up/downdrafts, however we'll see how it works practically.

colopilot wrote:I should by end of this month (AV-20-S model), it's in the panel and powers up but we haven't made it to test flights yet due to unrelated delays. So far the display looks cool in my hangar though.

I'd like to hear if anyone has tried it out as well. Based on my conversations with their CEO I'm comfortable with how it works and what happens in strong up/downdrafts, however we'll see how it works practically.

All their literature seems to refer to flight with wings level. Do you have a sense of whether it will work to calculate loss of lift in a high bank angle turn? I did like their response to downdrafts though.

If you calibrate it at full flaps will you have to do some math in your head to calculate AoA in cruise or with flaps 10?

How did you end up chatting with the CEO? I sent a couple questions to their support people but haven't heard an answer yet.

albravo wrote:All their literature seems to refer to flight with wings level. Do you have a sense of whether it will work to calculate loss of lift in a high bank angle turn? I did like their response to downdrafts though.

If you calibrate it at full flaps will you have to do some math in your head to calculate AoA in cruise or with flaps 10?

How did you end up chatting with the CEO? I sent a couple questions to their support people but haven't heard an answer yet.

I think bank angle would calculate since it does have a 3-axis gyro (in fact it works as a backup AI/slip-skid), but I'll add that to my flight test list for sure. I can't answer the flap question yet, but I imagine there would be a discrepancy. This is similar to probed AoA systems though at least from what I've read - they're only calibrated for one flap setting. The LRI seems not to care about flaps, but I don't have any experience with it.

I didn't try real hard to connect. I talked to him in person at AirVenture, and I've had a couple email conversations outside of that. You may want to call them.

Mine is installed, but like the other, between shoveling snow & vacationing to get away from the snow, I haven’t had it in the air yet. I’ve had several email conversations with them, with very quick responses. I’d hit them up again, they seem very willing to chat. Jeff, the owner, was cofounder of Aspen, which gives him great credibility and experienced credentials. I installed it along with a Dynon D100. I would have ordered their AV 30, but didn’t want to wait for certification, as my vacuum pump blew up and didn’t want to buy another one of those, even for temporary. One of my friends did preorder two of them for his 180, and wanted to get the AV 20, and replace his clock, but is concerned about the certification as his 180 is IFR. The NORSEE states that it can be installed “in addition to required equipment”. Hard to imagine that it couldn’t replace some old “certified tick tock clock, but, with that verbiage?


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My AV-20s is now installed, but the aircraft is awaiting high compression pistons, so no actual in-flight PIREP yet. The probe-less AOA in the AV-20s is essentially the same system in Aspen products, which makes sense, yes?

I had a question with respect to the attitude display during the install, posted the question to their website last Saturday and received a reply from the founder of the company within a half hour. The question pertained to mounting the AV-20s on a side panel that was at about 15 degrees to the main panel (and thus not perpendicular to the direction of flight). The response was that they had not specifically tested off-angle mounting configurations for the AV-20s, but that at some point roll becomes pitch and pitch becomes roll.
Based on his response we elected to mount the AV-20s on the main panel and eliminate any issues.

pilotboy99 wrote:My AV-20s is now installed, but the aircraft is awaiting high compression pistons, so no actual in-flight PIREP yet. The probe-less AOA in the AV-20s is essentially the same system in Aspen products, which makes sense, yes?

I had a question with respect to the attitude display during the install, posted the question to their website last Saturday and received a reply from the founder of the company within a half hour. The question pertained to mounting the AV-20s on a side panel that was at about 15 degrees to the main panel (and thus not perpendicular to the direction of flight). The response was that they had not specifically tested off-angle mounting configurations for the AV-20s, but that at some point roll becomes pitch and pitch becomes roll.
Based on his response we elected to mount the AV-20s on the main panel and eliminate any issues.

Who did your install? The guys at Langely Aero are the ones that suggested I take a look at it.

albravo wrote:Does anybody have any experience with their AoA system?

No experience, but I'm planning on putting a couple of AV-30's in my panel when they're available. I was doing some research and cam across a thread in a Mooney forum where there were a couple of people that had issues with the AOA not working as expected during turns. The response from the company was something to the effect of "yeah, we've had some issues with Mooney's", which doesn't make any sense to me since it's a self contained unit, but maybe something to do with the pitot & static plumbing?

I've had a couple of really good conversation with Jeff Bethel and very confident that he's well on his way to a quality product to the point that I've "pre-order" two AV-30's for my panel upgrade. I was planning an AV-20 as well but the AoA guidance is also displayed on the AV-30 so he actually convinced me to forgo the AV-20 in lieu of the the AV-30's.

Mapleflt wrote:I've had a couple of really good conversation with Jeff Bethel and very confident that he's well on his way to a quality product to the point that I've "pre-order" two AV-30's for my panel upgrade. I was planning an AV-20 as well but the AoA guidance is also displayed on the AV-30 so he actually convinced me to forgo the AV-20 in lieu of the the AV-30's.

I might have done the same had I not already gone the route of dual G5's, plus I want it flying now not whenever the FAA blesses him. But these are high on my list for whatever my next project ends up being.

This may sound a bit odd but a leading reason I went with the AV-30 product was the ability to customize the displays and maintain a semi-tradition, authentic look, there will be NO magenta or cyan anywhere on my "update" instrument panel.

albravo wrote: Who did your install? The guys at Langely Aero are the ones that suggested I take a look at it.

I now own a GlaStar, so I installed it myself.
I suppose I should update my avatar one of these days.....

Just checked out the AV-30 because of this thread and I’m impressed! If it’s less than $2000 for the certified version (EXP one is $1500) then I think they will have a winner.

In chatting with Jeff Bethel I understand it's his intentions to be as close as possible on the pricing between both versions. However it's reasonable that some difference should likely be expected for the certification efforts and added value.

That’s refreshing!

AeroVonics has just announced that their non-certified version of the AV-30 is now available for purchase and the certified version is expected in the not to distant future.

Am I wrong, or did I read that they "certified" it under NORSEE, meaning that it's only a "secondary" device, so you have to keep your standard gauges? (Assuming "certified" aircraft, of course. Experimentals are another story.)

I'm not very familiar with the FAA certification process, here is a quote from the email I received yesterday announcing availability of the experimental version.

"AV-30-C Update:
The AV-30-C (Certified) is moving along with a substantial portion of the certification data package developed. We are working with the Boston ACO and will most likely be pursuing TSO in addition to the AML/STC project. This should help with international sales."

Others much wiser than I may be able to add more detail to this ?

Cheers

There was a Facebook Thread on this and it seemed to indicate that it's still about 6 months out from certification.

I've been very interested in these as an alternative to 2x Garmin G5. I tried to get some more details on how well these would interface with Avidyne 440 or GTN 650 but have not been able to get solid details or commitments.

That's odd, I have found Jeff Bethel to be very approachable and helpful