The war in Ukraine will reduce critical wheat supplies to the famine parts of Africa. Our farmers, already at record production last year, will attempt to fill the gap. The airlines will use the majority of new commercial pilots, but Ag is willing to use older pilots. Not backcountry, but the skills developed in Ag work are applicable to backcountry flying.

Water shortage severely limits increased acreage, but chemical application of herbicides and pesticides increases production on the same acreage.

My Cessna 206 original Weight and Balances show an Optional Spray System. This spray system must have been originally approved and drawings drawn up. Does anyone have any drawings or information on this system? I should be able to carry up to 170 gallons. Would love to build a convertible plane. Get a spare fwd cargo door, plumb the fill, emergency dump etc in the door.

Can’t imagine why any ag operator would take on an old inexperienced guy. Just ain’t worth it in todays litigious society, drift conflicts, etc. They’ll quit instead. Hard to beat a good ground rig if we’re being honest with one another.

gbflyer wrote:Can’t imagine why any ag operator would take on an old inexperienced guy. Just ain’t worth it in todays litigious society, drift conflicts, etc. They’ll quit instead. Hard to beat a good ground rig if we’re being honest with one another.

And yet aerial application is booming. Just finished an ag flying course that had 16 students. 14 had seats this summer.
As good as a ground rig is it still leaves tracks. And with commodities at very high prices those tracks cost a lot of money. More amd more farmers using ag planes again. Drift can he overcome with proper techniques and higher water rates. A ground rig cannot overcome leaving tracks.

We only use air when spraying tall tangled crops like canola mustard, in cereals and pulse crops we use high clearance 120 foot with pizza cutters in cereals and fats when doing mature crops like lentils.

David K wrote:We only use air when spraying tall tangled crops like canola mustard, in cereals and pulse crops we use high clearance 120 foot with pizza cutters in cereals and fats when doing mature crops like lentils.

Historically that's what we've always done as well. It helped that cereals were cheaper amd making a couple tracks in them didn't cost as much as an airplane. In our area I'm quite sure we will see some change with this this year as cereals are now in the $14/bushel range and putting tracks in them, even the skinny tires track it down with our drill spacings, is more costly then the airplane. It's all in the economics. The wet conditions so far also favor the plane.

I was an irrigated row crop farmer, high value stuff. Water runs between the rows, so no problem with tires. We hired ag planes when necessary but there is no debate about who gets the best coverage. They run some helos now, they are almost as good as a ground rig. Of course the sweet corn farmers use the aerial applicators more as they spray every other day at times. The guys with pivots and solid sets really have it made, they put a lot of it in the water. Obviously spray planes own the market in the dry land farming business.

A1 that’s awesome about the 14 new pilots. I bet none of them were 60 year old career change wannabes though. Haha.

gbflyer wrote:I was an irrigated row crop farmer, high value stuff. Water runs between the rows, so no problem with tires. We hired ag planes when necessary but there is no debate about who gets the best coverage. They run some helos now, they are almost as good as a ground rig. Of course the sweet corn farmers use the aerial applicators more as they spray every other day at times. The guys with pivots and solid sets really have it made, they put a lot of it in the water. Obviously spray planes own the market in the dry land farming business.

A1 that’s awesome about the 14 new pilots. I bet none of them were 60 year old career change wannabes though. Haha.

Actually, one was! Came from the airlines and was learning to spray!

Hi Contact,

I hope all is well with you!

Hi Van,
I can't begin to count all the 'why?s' I've followed your creation as long as it's been on the webs, please don't subject that fine machine to a life of caustic corrosive smelly showers. Your post is really open ended, so I will not draw conclusions past that little comment.

Hi gb... yes, you set the bait... and yes you are correct. There really is no debate as to who what gets better coverage, but you are mistaken if you just plaster 'ground rig' as the answer.
Best coverage award (or more appropriately, best application award) goes to the applicator applying the best, irregardless of his tool of application PERIOD. All any of us are doing is covering the plant with appropriately sized droplets for the task at hand.
The only thing a ground rig is better at is forgiving slobs. Anything can and will drift, anything can and will streak, anything can and will allow volatile chemicals to move.
For anyone that thinks I am biased, I'm OK with that, I'm not buying or selling anything to you, and have little to prove to the growers I spray for that actually own their own ground rigs. They have already connected those dots.

Which brings me to another point... spray? who started this? We don't spray anything.... If you suspend an airplane from a gantry and run the pump, you'll find that we 'spray' about 2 feet... and no one but Contact is flying loaded spray plane at 2 feet above the canopy today with todays chemicals, and actually getting a good result (sorry Jim, just funnin') We are spraying droplets in the air / wind, which in turn is depositing those droplets where we want them. A good applicator will have learned how to use mother nature (his real paint brush) and put those droplets exactly where he wants. I will admit, spray plane sounds a lot cooler than droplet plane

I used to get a note on my rec.'s from a particular grower that would say 'Please use back and fourth pattern with narrow swath so as to hit both sides of the plant' There is not enough magic in the world to do this with any spray plane or helicopter. Even a ground rig at 20" off the canopy can't rely on this... The wind is always going to deposit it on the down wind side.

There will always be people and regions that favor one method or another, and that is cool, but science is science, and in this case it's really pretty clear if a person is willing to look.

As to the age thing? I have nothing for you... I cringe at the kids that haven't got the stupid out of their system yet, strapping in to a single seat go fast with 5000 pounds of poison straddled between 2000 pounds of fuel.... but the thought of someone sneaking a peek under their cheaters to see if their depends are leaking isn't much more comforting....

Take care, Rob

A1, you're in prime snowbird country, and many of your neighbors winter in our backyard. Look us up if you're ever down this way, it would be fun to compare notes.

I'll look you up for sure Rob. I'm going to he in Olney in January for a AT maintenance course. A bit away from you, but next time I'm out around AZ I'll hit you up for sure. Would be great to glean some advice from you!

...

Rob wrote:Hi Contact,

I hope all is well with you!

Hi Van,
I can't begin to count all the 'why?s' I've followed your creation as long as it's been on the webs, please don't subject that fine machine to a life of caustic corrosive smelly showers. Your post is really open ended, so I will not draw conclusions past that little comment.

Hi gb... yes, you set the bait... and yes you are correct. There really is no debate as to who what gets better coverage, but you are mistaken if you just plaster 'ground rig' as the answer.
Best coverage award (or more appropriately, best application award) goes to the applicator applying the best, irregardless of his tool of application PERIOD. All any of us are doing is covering the plant with appropriately sized droplets for the task at hand.
The only thing a ground rig is better at is forgiving slobs. Anything can and will drift, anything can and will streak, anything can and will allow volatile chemicals to move.
For anyone that thinks I am biased, I'm OK with that, I'm not buying or selling anything to you, and have little to prove to the growers I spray for that actually own their own ground rigs. They have already connected those dots.

Which brings me to another point... spray? who started this? We don't spray anything.... If you suspend an airplane from a gantry and run the pump, you'll find that we 'spray' about 2 feet... and no one but Contact is flying loaded spray plane at 2 feet above the canopy today with todays chemicals, and actually getting a good result (sorry Jim, just funnin') We are spraying droplets in the air / wind, which in turn is depositing those droplets where we want them. A good applicator will have learned how to use mother nature (his real paint brush) and put those droplets exactly where he wants. I will admit, spray plane sounds a lot cooler than droplet plane

I used to get a note on my rec.'s from a particular grower that would say 'Please use back and fourth pattern with narrow swath so as to hit both sides of the plant' There is not enough magic in the world to do this with any spray plane or helicopter. Even a ground rig at 20" off the canopy can't rely on this... The wind is always going to deposit it on the down wind side.

There will always be people and regions that favor one method or another, and that is cool, but science is science, and in this case it's really pretty clear if a person is willing to look.

As to the age thing? I have nothing for you... I cringe at the kids that haven't got the stupid out of their system yet, strapping in to a single seat go fast with 5000 pounds of poison straddled between 2000 pounds of fuel.... but the thought of someone sneaking a peek under their cheaters to see if their depends are leaking isn't much more comforting....

Take care, Rob

A1, you're in prime snowbird country, and many of your neighbors winter in our backyard. Look us up if you're ever down this way, it would be fun to compare notes.

I love arguing with aggies on an airplane site. Hahaha.

So you guys are applying Banvel and 2,4 D (hell maybe it’s outlawed now) on the corn with a head lettuce field right next to it? Dang, spray patterns must have really gotten precise. And you can now do 20 gallon work too? We did a lot of that on onions post-emerg with Goal and Poast. Anything less and it burned them way too much. No, half swaths don’t count. [emoji6]

Years ago we set up a kid with a Melroe to go to Wilcox and work for the lettuce company we grew for in CO. They were at war with the aerial spray service. He went and got his AZ license, smart kid, whipped it right out. The airplane guy revolted and refused to work for them as long as we were there. So we can home with our tail between our legs. Haha. Yes, never get rid of the spray planes.

I love crop dusters. There are no finer pilots anywhere in terms of pure handle on the aircraft. Survive 5 seasons of that and a guy is pretty much untouchable.

Rob, you better stop in this year dammit. [emoji1]

gbflyer wrote:I love arguing with aggies on an airplane site. Hahaha.

So you guys are applying Banvel and 2,4 D (hell maybe it’s outlawed now) on the corn with a head lettuce field right next to it? Dang, spray patterns must have really gotten precise. And you can now do 20 gallon work too? We did a lot of that on onions post-emerg with Goal and Poast. Anything less and it burned them way too much. No, half swaths don’t count. [emoji6]

Years ago we set up a kid with a Melroe to go to Wilcox and work for the lettuce company we grew for in CO. They were at war with the aerial spray service. He went and got his AZ license, smart kid, whipped it right out. The airplane guy revolted and refused to work for them as long as we were there. So we can home with our tail between our legs. Haha. Yes, never get rid of the spray planes.

I love crop dusters. There are no finer pilots anywhere in terms of pure handle on the aircraft. Survive 5 seasons of that and a guy is pretty much untouchable.

Rob, you better stop in this year dammit. [emoji1]

You bet, it's not a coincidence I'm posting this here and not at AgTalk on an Apache vs New Holland thread

An airplane can't do everything a ground rig can all else equal, and the same rings true the other way.

Yes we get the same crazy herbicide orders anyone else does, sometimes discretion is the better part of valor But in our niche of the application industry herbicides are really the easy stuff.... I mean you get a loose cannon that rolls a pass into the adjacent field and he costs you what? 20 beds of lettuce that he dinged, speckled, or smoked in a week or two...

Conversely the more insidious drift claims in todays leafy green world are likely to be cross contamination issues that don't even hurt the plant... say... Capture (or any Bifenture product) on Leaf lettuce or Silencer ( or again any Lamda Cyhaolthrin product) on Spinach. In either of these cases there will likely be zero detectability to the naked eye. It's simply not labeled because the plant doesn't metabolize it. Consequently it will go unnoticed until it's all harvested and in the cooler... where a few parts per million and you'll get to buy the whole field because they have no way to tell if you drifted on one bed or 100

Yep on 20 GPA for the same reasons you did it. All of our wide bed stuff goes at 15 - 20. It takes a boat load of nozzles and a healthy pump. You'll still only get 16-18 true, but if you load for the 15 or 20 and hold 20% on the spray for clean up, and unplanted acres, you'll give him what he paid for and have enough to not run short. Cheat it on spinach and you may end up buying that spinach....

And yep, apologies we blew right on by last time, but if you watched out tracking you probably extrapolated what fun the Wx was

Take care, Rob

All the cool kids have one of these:[emoji1]

gbflyer wrote:All the cool kids have one of these:[emoji1]

Well at least you run the right color! Haha.

A1Skinner wrote:

gbflyer wrote:All the cool kids have one of these:[emoji1]

Well at least you run the right color! Haha.

Stolen off the interwebs. But yes, still put green paint on my cereal in the morning. Haha.


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gbflyer wrote:All the cool kids have one of these:[emoji1]

Some of us even make it out of the larva stage





Just sayin'

Rob wrote:

gbflyer wrote:All the cool kids have one of these:[emoji1]

Some of us even make it out of the larva stage





Just sayin'

Good one. Haha.


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Rob, I just cannot let this rest:

https://www.deere.com/en/sprayers/see-spray-ultimate/


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gbflyer wrote:Rob, I just cannot let this rest:

https://www.deere.com/en/sprayers/see-spray-ultimate/


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California will have a mandate on its agenda within 60 days of watching this video.

Or, whenever the next election is pending…….