Skydive206 wrote:I am still able to run gasoline in the Long Eze O-235. I just have to pull the mixture out to reduce fuel flow 20% and run a lower max power setting to maintain cyl and oil temps.

That's on an experimental aircraft... I do the exact same thing when I run on a "cocktail" fuel. The other poster talked about an STC, that is for a certified aircraft. I don't know the details of that STC but usually the FAA will not approve an STC that involves obscure and random mixture settings. IMHO.

Ben.

So we agree hi fuel prices are bad for you, if you own a plane and want to sell it or fly it.

If you want to buy a plane and don't care about the price of fuel it is a good thing.

We know we have a lot of untapped oil in the USA. Congress should pass a law that the reserves be brought to the USA market ONLY! Take the rest of the world out of the equation.

RobBurson wrote:So we agree hi fuel prices are bad for you, if you own a plane and want to sell it or fly it.

If you want to buy a plane and don't care about the price of fuel it is a good thing.

We know we have a lot of untapped oil in the USA. Congress should pass a law that the reserves be brought to the USA market ONLY! Take the rest of the world out of the equation.

Or,

According to how big some people claim the reserves are, drill for oil, and then export a portion of it to pay off our debt.

Oh, but that's right, the big government politicians will spend more that what ever revenues they receive.

It's too bad that more voters dont realize how screwed we really are!

I don't know the details of that STC but usually the FAA will not approve an STC that involves obscure and random mixture settings.

FAA approved the AGE-85 STC for Cessna 180's and 182's with the Texas Skyways O 470 UTS which is a U model that they speed up 200 RPM's to get 250 hp or so. It can use either 100LL or 88% ethanol or any combination by adjusting the mixture.

quote from the guy at University of Houston

Simply use the existing mixture control,

It runs both 100LL and Ethanol.

On the Carb version 0-320 etc the modification allows a full range of adjustment.

Procedure is on run up do a full throttle and adjust mix for highest RPM. We use a jpi EDM for in Cruise. Or simply do it the old fashioned way and listen to the engine, suprisingly this still works every time. There is a clip that blocks full travel of the mixture control when on 100LL (max rich 100LL) remove the clip then all the way in is the max rich for Ethanol.

There is a clip that blocks full travel of the mixture control when on 100LL (max rich 100LL) remove the clip then all the way in is the max rich for Ethanol.

I talked to the STC holder of the AGE-85 7-8 years ago. He said that to use the Texas Skyways engine and his Fuel STC you would have to use his fuel. Only his fuel. That was a limitation. If I go and buy E-85 at the pump I am violating the STC.

Skydive206 wrote:I talked to the STC holder of the AGE-85 7-8 years ago. He said that to use the Texas Skyways engine and his Fuel STC you would have to use his fuel. Only his fuel. That was a limitation. If I go and buy E-85 at the pump I am violating the STC.

AGE-85 is not the same as E-85 at the pump. An STC was granted for AGE-85 only. They both contain ethanol but the remaining components are different.
AGE85 is:

88 volume% (vol%) ethanol

11 vol% pentane isomerate, a high-octane (88 [R+M]/2), 100% aliphatic gasoline blendstock

1 vol% biodiesel (must meet ASTM PS 121 specifications). Note: the 1% biodiesel is sufficient to coat surfaces of cylinders and heads to inhibit and reduce corrosion.

Pure ethanol, with an Reid vapor pressure (Rvp) of 2.3 pounds per square inch (psi), does not vaporize well enough to start an engine.

Addition of pentane isomerate (Rvp of 15 psi) at 11% yields a fuel with an Rvp of 7.5 psi, which provides good engine starting (even in South Dakota winter) and does not cause vapor lock.

Developed and demonstrated by:

Great Planes Fuel Development, Brookings, South Dakota

South Dakota State University, Brookings

Lake Area Technical Institute, Watertown, South Dakota

Texas Skyways, Boerne, Texas

University of North Dakota Energy & Environmental Research Center, Grand Forks

Certified in May 1999 by U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for use in Cessna 180 and 182 engine–airframe combinations.

Certified in February 2000 by FAA for use in any proportion with 100LL in certified engine–airframe combinations.

Footnote: I provided this information to clarify the differences between E-85 and AGE-85. I have not used the fuel nor do I have any experience with ethanol fuel so far in my aircraft.
dirt

Back to the original thread....


....I bought a Pitts SIC with 40 hours on it in 1984. Gas was well below $2.00 per gallon. Flew it 400 hours, never spent a dime on it beyond annuals...sold it in 1996 for double what I paid for it. Those were good days.

Bought a 260 H.P. Skybolt in 1995. Flew it just over 450 hours. Gas around $2.00 a gallon. Spent nothing on it beyond annuals. Sold it cheap in 2002 for 20% more than I paid for it. Pretty good days too.

Bought a beautiful Maule M-5-210 in 2002 with 285 hours on a Gold Medallion factory Zero time remanufactured engine. Gas creeping up to about $2.50 a gallon. Flew it around the nation's borders....15,220 miles, 123 flight hours in 2003. Burned nearly 1,400 gallons. Average gas price that trip was $2.79 per gallon. All along the Texas Rio Grande it was exactly $2.00 per gallon everywhere we stopped. Paid $3.62 at International Falls, Minnesota. Have flown the airplane over 700 hours in 9 years. Replaced a fuel boost pump in McCall, Idaho, turn and bank indicator and minor repairs back home in Missouri...plus the annuals.

The airplane today is worth about 30% LESS THAN I PAID FOR IT!! Gas at my home base is now $5.45 per gallon. I can buy a 1st class airline ticket for less than it cost me to fly the airplane any distance. $65.00 per hour in fuel alone....that's 50 cents per mile in fuel cost. The economy sucks, the nation is bankrupt, pilot ranks are declining, airspace is less friendly....the future of 100LL is questionable.

My opinion is that used general aviation aircraft values will NEVER return to the values of five years ago. Heck...I have a buddy who bought a new Cirrus three years ago. He told me that it's value has declined by 50%! But if you can afford to still play with your airplane....keep it. I never bought mine as an investment anyway. It has never been about transportation....just fun. Still it is discouraging to see the trend that we all are face with. Buy an airplane if you want one. Hang on to what you have if you possibly can. Otherwise....it's a blood bath.

Now as to other comments on this thread. SUPPLY AND DEMAND MY ASS. The DEMAND hasn't risen 25% in the last 60 days and the SUPPLY hasn't declined by 25% nor has the dollor dropped in value by that amount in the last 60 days. But the price sure as heck has risen at the pump(auto and aviation fuel) by nearly 25% percent. Watch the price flucuate wildly on an almost daily basis. Supply and demand don't change on a dime. It is SPECULATION.. ...pure and simple. That adds about 20 to 30% to the price of your fuel. The average barrel of oil changes hands 11 times each day on the futures market!!

Yes....one day China and India may outstrip the supply and I expect huge increases in fuel prices down the road. But that just is not a true factor in today's market. You can buy all the gas you want....just have to pay more for it. Demand and supply drives up the price when the supply doesn't meet the demand.

The Arabs keep the worlds supply and demand in near perfect balance. They produce it for little of nothing. It's all the guys trading with one another that drive the price up. Imagine if the traders had to possess and store the oil they buy for say ..... 90 days. Bet you'd see auto gas go back to under $2.00 a gallon.

Our airplanes are kind of like ones youth. Enjoy it while you can. When you reach my age of 63....well the youth may be gone....but my Maule makes me feel younger than Zane!!

Have fun.

Bob