Early days but looking to also embark on a 185B that has not flown for nearly 10 years. I am keen to keep everything as original as possible, including the -470 engine. Avionics the emphasis is also original panel with a new COM and an IFR GPS/COM. It has Mode C.

In terms of the near on 60 year young airframe I would get the shop to look at: control cables, fuel lines, fuel bladders (it is a 65 gallon ON/OFF fuel selector model), wheels/brakes/tail wheel, and look carefully at the stabilator trim. From the inspection hatches it appears corrosion free but the wings will be boroscoped - theory there should be no need to take the wings off? Tail feathers would be removed for inspection and overhaul of the trim system. Query whether a gear box strengthening is now regarded as a must have. Tailwheel lock seems overkill? Not installed on this sample.

Engine: it is about half life but obviously has not run in years, nor has it been pickled. Magnetos would be overhauled and IRAN carried out. New battery but not planning to replace the generator with an alternator. Propeller is two blade and in good condition but CSU would be overhauled. Fuel pumps would be overhauled/checked.

Electrics: see above, thought is junk the old 170B x 2 plus ADF and replace with a GNC225 COM and either a GTN650 or 635 or second hand KLN94. Wiring to be replaced. Replacing the gyros with a G5 is a thought from a weight saving/maintenance perspective.

Interior: BAS four point harnesses for front row, and upgrade seats.

Logs are reasonably complete, some gaps in the early years but no recorded incidents other than a runway over run 25 years ago. Paint is OK, in due course it would be restored to an original 1962-1963 scheme.

My philosophy is use budget for flying, this isn’t a working airplane.

However any missing potential updates that evry 185 gets today? No plans for a -550 or a Sportsman mod, although the latter might be considered when and if the aircraft is re painted.

My advice would be to read pilotryans 185 saga, then read it again. Especially the parts about his iran'd engine.

L18C-95 wrote:....In terms of the near on 60 year young airframe I would get the shop to look at: control cables, fuel lines, fuel bladders (it is a 65 gallon ON/OFF fuel selector model), wheels/brakes/tail wheel, and look carefully at the stabilator trim. From the inspection hatches it appears corrosion free but the wings will be boroscoped - theory there should be no need to take the wings off? Tail feathers would be removed for inspection and overhaul of the trim system. Query whether a gear box strengthening is now regarded as a must have. Tailwheel lock seems overkill? Not installed on this sample.
Engine: it is about half life but obviously has not run in years, nor has it been pickled......

No stabilator, it's actually a trimmable stabilizer.
Remove wings-- IMHO no.
"Gear box strengthening" - I assume you mean Pponk reinforcement kit. IMHO not a must-have.
Tailwheel lock -- IMHO not a must have.

Engine...I have a buddy who has resurrected several airplanes and/or engines which have sat for years.
He has yet to tear one down, or have it fail after he started flying it.
His procedure: pull the top plug of a cylinder, and pour in a bunch of marvel mystery oil.
Let it marinade. Repeat with other 5 cylinders in turn. Pistons at BDC I guess.
When you're ready, run it a couple hours (stay within gliding distance of a good place to land) and do an oil change.
Check the drained oil carefully.
Repeat a couple times before you start to trust it.

Ditto Mark Y's comment about pilotryan's engine IRAN results.
"You go looking for trouble and you'll find it"
is sometimes applicable to these sort of situations.

Don't kid yourself about an engine that has sat for 10 years. Sure you probably can soak it with M/M oil and get it running. Probably will run real good for 20 -30 hrs until the cam starts making metal from pitted lifters. The real question is was it stored in a preserved state or just put away hot and wet and forgotten? Was it in a dry hanger enviroment or outside in the wet cold? Smart thing to do before running it is to pull a cylinder and see what you have to work with. At the very least, run a flexible borescope down the crankcase vent/ oil fill tube and have a look at the front end of the engine for rust as a representation of the general condition of the rest of the engine. Price of the aircraft should reflect the engine as being in need of overhaul. If you end up with an engine free of rust and corosion, thats a bonus-but realize that any time you could be on the hook for a overhaul. -I've been down this road more than once.

This would be my fourth ‘project’, and to date have been lucky on the first three. The Super Cub was abandoned for many years but the C-90-8F did get an overhaul, the same for a Warrior which is a ‘working airplane’ and that got an overhaul.

The first was an Aztec which gave me sterling service for a dozen years - it is still a workhorse having been sold to Romania, then worked in Greece and Ukraine, and is now in Estonia.

The -470 is a known quantity in these parts so I am reasonably confident that the decision to overhaul or not will be easily arrived at. The ferry flight is only one hour so look forward to checking out the marvel mystery oil technique.

Some ways to go as a price as is where is has not been agreed yet.

You are looking at buying an excellent airplane. If done right, they are magic. These airplanes are sure worth every effort taken to keep them in the air.

That being said, when I started out on my 1961 C185 Skywagon project; I thought that it would take six months tops and it would be done for good. A year and a half later and I finally get my airplane back to only have to tear it all apart again to address some major issues that were simply overlooked.

The only thing that worries me from your post is the engine. The IO-470 is a killer engine. It is reliable, efficient and it sure sounds darn good at full tilt. My IO-470 sat for 15 years in the same condition as yours. With only six hundred some hours on it, I thought that there would be no reason to overhaul it. This thought was developed deeper in my mind when I got hit with the $9,000 IRAN. A few months went buy and the price went to $15,000. I'm thinking "not a huge deal, a lot of stuff has to be replaced on an engine that sat for so long." A few months later the price goes up again, this time its up $34,000 and some change. You'd expect for that price to get back an overhauled engine that's good for 1500 hours. NOPE. Thirty hours on the engine and its still burning oil, thirty hours on the engine and its still shaking like Michael J Fox (sorry). Thirty hours on the engine brings me thirty hours closer to the issue. My advice is to have the engine overhauled at a reputable shop, or slap an IO-520 on the nose. I did not listen until it was too late. By then I'm into the engine for more than what a remanned 520 would cost. If you are looking for a cheap pleasure 185, an overhauled IO-470 is the best option. With a good engine monitor and the GAMI injectors, you can get fuel flow down to almost nothing/hr and still go places.

I would install these things on my airplane again:
MT Prop
Alternator
Firewall Battery
AeroLEDs
Sportsman Cuff
Micro VGs
Split Stream Cuffs
MVP-50
Door Stewards

I would definitely consider cutting up a new panel. The original panel is great for sure, but getting something with the standard six pack is so much better. You can get a six pack with the original T column, but it takes some work. However it is worth it in my opinion! I know a company that can help you with that, send me a message and I can get you in touch. I have one of their panels in my airplane, its top notch!

pilotryan wrote:...the IO-470 is the best option.

Thank you for the replies. Am working to a budget and while I think the 185 will continue to be sought after, the value of a -470, non-sea plane 185B is capped. Also has the 65 gallons set up, which is plenty for here but a constraint in some parts of the US. Hence my thinking on the panel is to keep it original and junk all the old avionics - current thought is just a GTR225 and a second hand KLN94. In due course the Mode C will be upgraded.

On the engine the choices are an IRAN with a reputable shop, overhaul or swap for a new -550. The IRAN vs overhaul decision is relatively straightforward: wouldn’t spend more than $5k on the IRAN - if the quote after inspection is more, then off to a $35-40k overhaul it goes. The two main overhaul shops in the UK are excellent (Norvic and McLaren - yes as in the Formula 1 race cars).

A 3 blade MT propeller is a possibility if the engine is being overhauled. Not sure what these cost, the current two blade prop is in good condition. What is the noise footprint for the MT? It may be worth it from future noise certificate requirements.

Not sure what a -550 costs, but am guessing when all said and done around $75k. Working to a budget this seems too much powerplant for a private ops 185B. But isn’t the debate -470 vs -550? If you swap my thinking is a -550 is the choice today vs a -520? Then there are the specialist engine builders in the US, but the local UK shops are very good, and are local.

Another data point is that the aircraft is fitted with

MCCAULEY D2A34C58-0/S-90AT-2

88 inch two blade propeller.

L18C-95 wrote:But isn’t the debate -470 vs -550?

I agree totally... Anything over $5k-ish on an IRAN is just plain foolish.

Moreover, I cant think of ANY reason I would choose to put a 470 back in a Skywagon. Its just makes no sense at all.

The last quote I got from Western Skyways this last Dec was $34.8. This comes with new Millenniums, Sktyec, new mags, plugs, harness, inj system AND incl. shipping (US)

The real question is 550 or not. Unfortunately is not really that close in price and the 520 is the economical choice because you could justify keeping everything as is. Same mount, panel, instrumentation etc....

If you want the 550, add and additional $12.5k for the motor, $6k for the STC, and another $6k for the SPW Mount. If you are going with the 550, the argument for the 3 blade upgrade is compelling, so add that into the mix. With their April price bump, the 3 blade MT is now $18.8k. Airfrorms baffle kit at near $2k, new custom firesleeve hoses from Herber at $1.5k, new heat shields, etc etc etc... along with the new motor, you would be foolish not to run a wiz-bang engine monitor, so add $6k for the MVP-50 (best choice IMO) MVP means panel changes, so toss in another X to the mix, and on and on and on... Then add in the labor for the swap, and all the modifications.

Gets up there quick.

If it were me, I would go with the 520 and not look back. There is no shame in the 520, and it will probably get you out of the hole faster. The additional cash for the 550 just isnt worth the additional fuel burn and small boost in cruise speed.

Another option is to do what I am in the middle of for my 470 swap. I found a 520 core for $10.5k, then sold my (working) 470 for $10k and am putting it together here. Although Im doing an O520, NET/NET, after all is said and done, and with ALL the fancy bells and whistles I will be in at just under $25k.

Just my .02

[quote="Bigrenna"][quote="L18C-95"]But isn’t the debate -470 vs -550?[/quote

Moreover, I cant think of ANY reason I would choose to put a 470 back in a Skywagon. Its just makes no sense at all.

In defence of the -470 there are a few considerations:

1. Would need to get paperwork to approve a -520 in a 185B which in EASAland means money - assuming a straightforward STC
2. Some sources suggest the -470 crankcase has more longevity, less prone to cracks
3. This is not a seaplane so the extra 25hp is not that critical, and presumably the -520 does not give you the 150 lbs boost in gross weight without some additional paperwork (see 1 above)
4. With 55-60 gallons useable the slightly lower consumption at 55-65% is useful
5. More neighbourly at 2650 RPM, or 2500 RPM and the Alaska clothes peg noise abatement mod
6. The overhaul is in the UK avoiding shipping, duty, etc

I hadn’t realised the -550 was not an easy swap, it would appear the real debate is -520 vs -470 then. The -550 when all is said and done is $80k?

Quite keen to keep the original panel - having visibility on individual CHTs would be useful but not keen on the expense of a multi probe set up. Have flown with GAMIs and multi probe EGT, and without - am tending towards keep it simple and lean at 65%, watch your CHT and EGT (even single probe) fly at peak EGT. A believer in the turbo charged twins, but not in this application.

http://www.alaskawings.com/Skywagon.htm

A nice write up on a 185B restoration - they went with the -520.

IRAN vs overhaul, all depends on what you find when you crack it open. If you do.
As far as IO-470 vs 520 though, I guess I'm the odd man out here.
I don't see anything wrong with sticking with the IO470--
IF it performs well enough to meet your mission requirements.

The 470K in my 180 is getting to be pretty high time,
so I'm probably looking at an overhaul within the next few years.
Some if not most of the 180 guys I know have done engine upgrades,
mostly Ponks but a couple Texas Skyways and Air Plains,
but I'm planning on sticking with what I got-
but balanced flow-matched and all that stuff which will make for a smooth long-lifed engine.
Simply put, the 470 is be the least expensive way to go at OH time, is economical to operate,
and meets my performance needs.

Bigrenna wrote:

L18C-95 wrote:But isn’t the debate -470 vs -550?

I agree totally... Anything over $5k-ish on an IRAN is just plain foolish.

Moreover, I cant think of ANY reason I would choose to put a 470 back in a Skywagon. Its just makes no sense at all.

The last quote I got from Western Skyways this last Dec was $34.8. This comes with new Millenniums, Sktyec, new mags, plugs, harness, inj system AND incl. shipping (US)

The real question is 550 or not. Unfortunately is not really that close in price and the 520 is the economical choice because you could justify keeping everything as is. Same mount, panel, instrumentation etc....

If you want the 550, add and additional $12.5k for the motor, $6k for the STC, and another $6k for the SPW Mount. If you are going with the 550, the argument for the 3 blade upgrade is compelling, so add that into the mix. With their April price bump, the 3 blade MT is now $18.8k. Airfrorms baffle kit at near $2k, new custom firesleeve hoses from Herber at $1.5k, new heat shields, etc etc etc... along with the new motor, you would be foolish not to run a wiz-bang engine monitor, so add $6k for the MVP-50 (best choice IMO) MVP means panel changes, so toss in another X to the mix, and on and on and on... Then add in the labor for the swap, and all the modifications.

Gets up there quick.

If it were me, I would go with the 520 and not look back. There is no shame in the 520, and it will probably get you out of the hole faster. The additional cash for the 550 just isnt worth the additional fuel burn and small boost in cruise speed.

Another option is to do what I am in the middle of for my 470 swap. I found a 520 core for $10.5k, then sold my (working) 470 for $10k and am putting it together here. Although Im doing an O520, NET/NET, after all is said and done, and with ALL the fancy bells and whistles I will be in at just under $25k.

Just my .02

Greg, what's your opinion on the crossflow cylinders for the -520? I'm thinking about going that route for my 206, gets me 300+hp and better efficiency. If I buy a core and need new cylinders anyways, the cost is close. A few intake parts and done...