https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/620359200


Anyone know anything about this position?



I gathered it’s a C185, C206 and PA18, wheels skis and floats.

Does anyone have any experience on a day in the life on this job outside from what’s in the NPS site? Chance of adding on a law enforcement credential for better pay and pension?

Good long term career prospect?

First, the announcement closed yesterday.

Second, it's a seasonal job. That COULD lead to full time employment.

Third, there is no law enforcement requirement listed, so that job will not perform LE duties, BUT, any of these jobs COULD evolve into a LE position. That requires completion of a LOT of specific training, however. Whether NPS would pay for that or not.....

Finally, it was only open to current federal employees, disabled types, veterans with specific preference, etc, as listed in the beginning.

Frankly, it can be really hard to fill these positions, though this one maybe not. So, it may be re-advertised if they don't hire anyone from this round.

I did some work at Denali off and on when I was based out of Fairbanks. I did mostly wildlife work for them, telemetry, surveys, etc. There's an airstrip at the west and the east end of the Park, and it's a long drive, so probably move people around, and move folks up onto the glaciers.

MTV

Do all these Fed Government jobs require covid vaccine and booster shots?

Think I posted the wrong version, it was also open to the public, apparently it’s also basically a full time minus Dec - Jan

What’s it like flying for this type of operation?

StillLearning wrote:Do all these Fed Government jobs require covid vaccine and booster shots?

Said the shot was required or a valid exemption, or something to that effect, as to what that really means ??

NineThreeKilo wrote:Think I posted the wrong version, it was also open to the public, apparently it’s also basically a full time minus Dec - Jan

What’s it like flying for this type of operation?

Hauling people around (probably not much in this one), wildlife work (tracking, surveys, research projects), SAR on demand, etc.

Many commercial pilots think these would be great jobs, thinking they’ll be flying all the time. In fact, most of these jobs fly less than 200 or 300 hours per year, compared to an air taxi job in AK, flying over 1000 per year. They only want to fly. Then they get bored and become a PITA.

IF you go into one of these jobs with the right attitude, they can be a great way to earn a living.

When I worked in Fairbanks, Denali pilots rarely lasted more than a couple years, and these were full time Rangers and Biologists as well. That Park management didn’t value pilots. Hopefully, that’s changed, since it’s been fifteen years. But the point is, management can be friendly…..or not so much.

But, if you want to fly a lot, don’t go there.

MTV

mtv wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:Think I posted the wrong version, it was also open to the public, apparently it’s also basically a full time minus Dec - Jan

What’s it like flying for this type of operation?

Hauling people around (probably not much in this one), wildlife work (tracking, surveys, research projects), SAR on demand, etc.

Many commercial pilots think these would be great jobs, thinking they’ll be flying all the time. In fact, most of these jobs fly less than 200 or 300 hours per year, compared to an air taxi job in AK, flying over 1000 per year. They only want to fly. Then they get bored and become a PITA.

IF you go into one of these jobs with the right attitude, they can be a great way to earn a living.

When I worked in Fairbanks, Denali pilots rarely lasted more than a couple years, and these were full time Rangers and Biologists as well. That Park management didn’t value pilots. Hopefully, that’s changed, since it’s been fifteen years. But the point is, management can be friendly…..or not so much.

But, if you want to fly a lot, don’t go there.

MTV

I’m ok with low hours if its quality hours, as cheesy as it may sound, I’d much rather fly conservation or SAR or something where it leaves it better then I found it, vs normal 135 type stuff, if that makes sense.

What do these guys do on their non flying time? Is it like a on call? Living at the base ready state?


Thanks for the info BTW MTV

I worked for FWS in Alaska, so somewhat different agency, but somewhat similar aviation uses. So, to answer your question, i can only speak for what I saw in FWS, but I suspect NPS "full time" pilots (as in pilots with no other official duties) wind up kind of in the same boat as those in FWS. Requirements/qualifications are same, etc.

What I saw with "full time" pilots in FWS regarding what "Other Duties-note there is that statement in the position description, was that it totally depended on the particular pilot and their supervisor. Frankly, a lot of supervisors in government jobs aren't very motivated to actually "supervise" their employees. So, a go getter type pilot can and will find work to be done. On the other hand, a pilot who feels all he or she is REQUIRED to do is fly......is very likely to be a problem employee. I've seen more than a few of those folks either resign or be fired as a result.

But, if you're a team player, and motivated to stay busy, most any organization has room for "helpers", in a variety of roles. May be anything from assisting with tagging critters to shopping for groceries......I was a full time wildlife biologist/pilot and believe me, I've shopped for a LOT of groceries for my field crews. Point is, there's ALWAYS work to be done, if you're not too proud to do it. I've seen full time pilots succeed by being "that guy", who, when a project happens, he's first in line saying "how can I help?".

Flight times. I was blessed by VERY understanding bosses over the course of years. My annual flight times at work ranged from 300 to a high one year of 700 hours, when we had a REALLY rocking biological program going. But, I flew for most if not all the FWS offices in Interior Alaska and some of the others. I also did some flying for NPS on surveys during those years, including at Denali. My bosses figured it made them look good that they'd share airplanes and pilot to other programs. The only caveat was MY work had to be done, on time. And, BTW, at GS-12, there is no overtime authorized. Comp time is pretty limited (has to be used in next couple pay periods), so I donated a LOT of time.

But, I LOVED that job, and I'd do it all again.

So, the key to happiness, as in most jobs, can be found within oneself. Having a really good boss sure doesn't hurt, though.

Also, understand I retired fifteen years ago, so keep that in mind.....agencies change, projects change, etc.

MTV

mtv wrote:I worked for FWS in Alaska, so somewhat different agency, but somewhat similar aviation uses. So, to answer your question, i can only speak for what I saw in FWS, but I suspect NPS "full time" pilots (as in pilots with no other official duties) wind up kind of in the same boat as those in FWS. Requirements/qualifications are same, etc.

What I saw with "full time" pilots in FWS regarding what "Other Duties-note there is that statement in the position description, was that it totally depended on the particular pilot and their supervisor. Frankly, a lot of supervisors in government jobs aren't very motivated to actually "supervise" their employees. So, a go getter type pilot can and will find work to be done. On the other hand, a pilot who feels all he or she is REQUIRED to do is fly......is very likely to be a problem employee. I've seen more than a few of those folks either resign or be fired as a result.

But, if you're a team player, and motivated to stay busy, most any organization has room for "helpers", in a variety of roles. May be anything from assisting with tagging critters to shopping for groceries......I was a full time wildlife biologist/pilot and believe me, I've shopped for a LOT of groceries for my field crews. Point is, there's ALWAYS work to be done, if you're not too proud to do it. I've seen full time pilots succeed by being "that guy", who, when a project happens, he's first in line saying "how can I help?".

Flight times. I was blessed by VERY understanding bosses over the course of years. My annual flight times at work ranged from 300 to a high one year of 700 hours, when we had a REALLY rocking biological program going. But, I flew for most if not all the FWS offices in Interior Alaska and some of the others. I also did some flying for NPS on surveys during those years, including at Denali. My bosses figured it made them look good that they'd share airplanes and pilot to other programs. The only caveat was MY work had to be done, on time. And, BTW, at GS-12, there is no overtime authorized. Comp time is pretty limited (has to be used in next couple pay periods), so I donated a LOT of time.

But, I LOVED that job, and I'd do it all again.

So, the key to happiness, as in most jobs, can be found within oneself. Having a really good boss sure doesn't hurt, though.

Also, understand I retired fifteen years ago, so keep that in mind.....agencies change, projects change, etc.

MTV

Thank you!
That’s a ton of good knowledge

Answered my questions.. is there anything else I should know above these gigs or I’m missing? Guess its about 90k yr with the basic pension

NineThreeKilo wrote:

mtv wrote:I worked for FWS in Alaska, so somewhat different agency, but somewhat similar aviation uses. So, to answer your question, i can only speak for what I saw in FWS, but I suspect NPS "full time" pilots (as in pilots with no other official duties) wind up kind of in the same boat as those in FWS. Requirements/qualifications are same, etc.

What I saw with "full time" pilots in FWS regarding what "Other Duties-note there is that statement in the position description, was that it totally depended on the particular pilot and their supervisor. Frankly, a lot of supervisors in government jobs aren't very motivated to actually "supervise" their employees. So, a go getter type pilot can and will find work to be done. On the other hand, a pilot who feels all he or she is REQUIRED to do is fly......is very likely to be a problem employee. I've seen more than a few of those folks either resign or be fired as a result.

But, if you're a team player, and motivated to stay busy, most any organization has room for "helpers", in a variety of roles. May be anything from assisting with tagging critters to shopping for groceries......I was a full time wildlife biologist/pilot and believe me, I've shopped for a LOT of groceries for my field crews. Point is, there's ALWAYS work to be done, if you're not too proud to do it. I've seen full time pilots succeed by being "that guy", who, when a project happens, he's first in line saying "how can I help?".

Flight times. I was blessed by VERY understanding bosses over the course of years. My annual flight times at work ranged from 300 to a high one year of 700 hours, when we had a REALLY rocking biological program going. But, I flew for most if not all the FWS offices in Interior Alaska and some of the others. I also did some flying for NPS on surveys during those years, including at Denali. My bosses figured it made them look good that they'd share airplanes and pilot to other programs. The only caveat was MY work had to be done, on time. And, BTW, at GS-12, there is no overtime authorized. Comp time is pretty limited (has to be used in next couple pay periods), so I donated a LOT of time.

But, I LOVED that job, and I'd do it all again.

So, the key to happiness, as in most jobs, can be found within oneself. Having a really good boss sure doesn't hurt, though.

Also, understand I retired fifteen years ago, so keep that in mind.....agencies change, projects change, etc.

MTV

Thank you!
That’s a ton of good knowledge

Answered my questions.. is there anything else I should know above these gigs or I’m missing? Guess its about 90k yr with the basic pension

Just seeing this. I fly for NPS and I didn't know about this announcement, so I don't have any communication with that park that would help identify whether there is any movement off of the position mtv described as to the uncertain level of support for the fixed wing fleet pilot operation. However, in general I would say his description of long hours with low flight hours is about right. If you like the work you are doing it is a great opportunity. But you will be the ramper, the fueler, the manager and/or maintainer of all ramp and fueling equipment, the purchaser and maintainer of all aviation safety equipment, etc. Lots to do, not all of it flying. In our SW AK parks we fly a lot, over 300 hours per year each for two of us, but there are pilots in the system that end up with a lot less time. Usually if they are actively looking for opportunities to make sure the airplane is used, that doesn't happen as much.

I was hoping Troy would respond. He’s a current employee of the agency, so I’d listen to him.

MTV

Troy Hamon wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:

mtv wrote:I worked for FWS in Alaska, so somewhat different agency, but somewhat similar aviation uses. So, to answer your question, i can only speak for what I saw in FWS, but I suspect NPS "full time" pilots (as in pilots with no other official duties) wind up kind of in the same boat as those in FWS. Requirements/qualifications are same, etc.

What I saw with "full time" pilots in FWS regarding what "Other Duties-note there is that statement in the position description, was that it totally depended on the particular pilot and their supervisor. Frankly, a lot of supervisors in government jobs aren't very motivated to actually "supervise" their employees. So, a go getter type pilot can and will find work to be done. On the other hand, a pilot who feels all he or she is REQUIRED to do is fly......is very likely to be a problem employee. I've seen more than a few of those folks either resign or be fired as a result.

But, if you're a team player, and motivated to stay busy, most any organization has room for "helpers", in a variety of roles. May be anything from assisting with tagging critters to shopping for groceries......I was a full time wildlife biologist/pilot and believe me, I've shopped for a LOT of groceries for my field crews. Point is, there's ALWAYS work to be done, if you're not too proud to do it. I've seen full time pilots succeed by being "that guy", who, when a project happens, he's first in line saying "how can I help?".

Flight times. I was blessed by VERY understanding bosses over the course of years. My annual flight times at work ranged from 300 to a high one year of 700 hours, when we had a REALLY rocking biological program going. But, I flew for most if not all the FWS offices in Interior Alaska and some of the others. I also did some flying for NPS on surveys during those years, including at Denali. My bosses figured it made them look good that they'd share airplanes and pilot to other programs. The only caveat was MY work had to be done, on time. And, BTW, at GS-12, there is no overtime authorized. Comp time is pretty limited (has to be used in next couple pay periods), so I donated a LOT of time.

But, I LOVED that job, and I'd do it all again.

So, the key to happiness, as in most jobs, can be found within oneself. Having a really good boss sure doesn't hurt, though.

Also, understand I retired fifteen years ago, so keep that in mind.....agencies change, projects change, etc.

MTV

Thank you!
That’s a ton of good knowledge

Answered my questions.. is there anything else I should know above these gigs or I’m missing? Guess its about 90k yr with the basic pension

Just seeing this. I fly for NPS and I didn't know about this announcement, so I don't have any communication with that park that would help identify whether there is any movement off of the position mtv described as to the uncertain level of support for the fixed wing fleet pilot operation. However, in general I would say his description of long hours with low flight hours is about right. If you like the work you are doing it is a great opportunity. But you will be the ramper, the fueler, the manager and/or maintainer of all ramp and fueling equipment, the purchaser and maintainer of all aviation safety equipment, etc. Lots to do, not all of it flying. In our SW AK parks we fly a lot, over 300 hours per year each for two of us, but there are pilots in the system that end up with a lot less time. Usually if they are actively looking for opportunities to make sure the airplane is used, that doesn't happen as much.

Thanks for the reply Troy!

What are your thoughts on making a career out of this position? Chance of getting a law enforcement add on with these for better pay and pension?

Also anything I should ask should I get a interview?

Thanks

NineThreeKilo wrote:
Thanks for the reply Troy!

What are your thoughts on making a career out of this position? Chance of getting a law enforcement add on with these for better pay and pension?

Also anything I should ask should I get a interview?

Thanks

I don't know much about the fixed wing fleet program at Denali, so I can't offer any specifics there. One thing that is good about government flight operations is you will be rewarded for not flying when you shouldn't, which is a nice thing to have in the back of your mind instead of the constant pressure to fly when you shouldn't that some flight operations foster, whether intentionally or not. Most of the dual function positions work the other way, people are hired as law enforcement and then flight duties added. Pilot positions are graded higher than most law enforcement positions, so I don't expect it would result in higher pay to add law enforcement capacity. I am a dual function employee, I serve as the head of the science division and supervise all of the -ologists at the park, so from that standpoint I am not in a 2181 position like the one you are looking at, and the park units I support are pretty fixed wing dependent.

As far as your question regarding making a career; I have made a career out of the NPS in King Salmon. The government is not the best place to build flight hours, it is not the highest pay, but we do have interesting flight assignments and, at least where I am flying, some of the most diverse assignments. But it is not for everybody. Sometimes people get frustrated with some of the differences. One of those is that we pretty much treat everybody in the plane as a crewmember, which entails more training, more extensive and detailed preflight briefings, and the right and ability for anybody on the plane to cancel the mission at any point. Another is the fairly specific and sometimes even onerous process of getting all the different mission capabilities onto your card via training and checkrides.

Things that I would ask if I was interviewed would include the variety of the missions that the pilot will need to be conducting, the existing fleet and whether it is sufficient for what people need you to accomplish, and the level of support for the startup training and approvals.

Troy Hamon wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:
Thanks for the reply Troy!

What are your thoughts on making a career out of this position? Chance of getting a law enforcement add on with these for better pay and pension?

Also anything I should ask should I get a interview?

Thanks

I don't know much about the fixed wing fleet program at Denali, so I can't offer any specifics there. One thing that is good about government flight operations is you will be rewarded for not flying when you shouldn't, which is a nice thing to have in the back of your mind instead of the constant pressure to fly when you shouldn't that some flight operations foster, whether intentionally or not. Most of the dual function positions work the other way, people are hired as law enforcement and then flight duties added. Pilot positions are graded higher than most law enforcement positions, so I don't expect it would result in higher pay to add law enforcement capacity. I am a dual function employee, I serve as the head of the science division and supervise all of the -ologists at the park, so from that standpoint I am not in a 2181 position like the one you are looking at, and the park units I support are pretty fixed wing dependent.

As far as your question regarding making a career; I have made a career out of the NPS in King Salmon. The government is not the best place to build flight hours, it is not the highest pay, but we do have interesting flight assignments and, at least where I am flying, some of the most diverse assignments. But it is not for everybody. Sometimes people get frustrated with some of the differences. One of those is that we pretty much treat everybody in the plane as a crewmember, which entails more training, more extensive and detailed preflight briefings, and the right and ability for anybody on the plane to cancel the mission at any point. Another is the fairly specific and sometimes even onerous process of getting all the different mission capabilities onto your card via training and checkrides.

Things that I would ask if I was interviewed would include the variety of the missions that the pilot will need to be conducting, the existing fleet and whether it is sufficient for what people need you to accomplish, and the level of support for the startup training and approvals.

I thought the pension was much better with the LE or Fire add on? Hours wise I’m pretty good, not really needing to build time, and if it’s a full stop career not like I’d be building hours to get a different job, more looking to do quality flying, hopefully be able to grow in the agency, and have a good quality of life.

NineThreeKilo wrote:

Troy Hamon wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:
Thanks for the reply Troy!

What are your thoughts on making a career out of this position? Chance of getting a law enforcement add on with these for better pay and pension?

Also anything I should ask should I get a interview?

Thanks

I don't know much about the fixed wing fleet program at Denali, so I can't offer any specifics there. One thing that is good about government flight operations is you will be rewarded for not flying when you shouldn't, which is a nice thing to have in the back of your mind instead of the constant pressure to fly when you shouldn't that some flight operations foster, whether intentionally or not. Most of the dual function positions work the other way, people are hired as law enforcement and then flight duties added. Pilot positions are graded higher than most law enforcement positions, so I don't expect it would result in higher pay to add law enforcement capacity. I am a dual function employee, I serve as the head of the science division and supervise all of the -ologists at the park, so from that standpoint I am not in a 2181 position like the one you are looking at, and the park units I support are pretty fixed wing dependent.

As far as your question regarding making a career; I have made a career out of the NPS in King Salmon. The government is not the best place to build flight hours, it is not the highest pay, but we do have interesting flight assignments and, at least where I am flying, some of the most diverse assignments. But it is not for everybody. Sometimes people get frustrated with some of the differences. One of those is that we pretty much treat everybody in the plane as a crewmember, which entails more training, more extensive and detailed preflight briefings, and the right and ability for anybody on the plane to cancel the mission at any point. Another is the fairly specific and sometimes even onerous process of getting all the different mission capabilities onto your card via training and checkrides.

Things that I would ask if I was interviewed would include the variety of the missions that the pilot will need to be conducting, the existing fleet and whether it is sufficient for what people need you to accomplish, and the level of support for the startup training and approvals.

I thought the pension was much better with the LE or Fire add on? Hours wise I’m pretty good, not really needing to build time, and if it’s a full stop career not like I’d be building hours to get a different job, more looking to do quality flying, hopefully be able to grow in the agency, and have a good quality of life.

“Pension” can happen earlier for LE and some fire positions. But are you under age 37? If over that, you don’t qualify for LE .

6C retirement is a topic unto itself. And part time participation may not qualify.

MTV

mtv wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:

Troy Hamon wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:
Thanks for the reply Troy!

What are your thoughts on making a career out of this position? Chance of getting a law enforcement add on with these for better pay and pension?

Also anything I should ask should I get a interview?

Thanks

I don't know much about the fixed wing fleet program at Denali, so I can't offer any specifics there. One thing that is good about government flight operations is you will be rewarded for not flying when you shouldn't, which is a nice thing to have in the back of your mind instead of the constant pressure to fly when you shouldn't that some flight operations foster, whether intentionally or not. Most of the dual function positions work the other way, people are hired as law enforcement and then flight duties added. Pilot positions are graded higher than most law enforcement positions, so I don't expect it would result in higher pay to add law enforcement capacity. I am a dual function employee, I serve as the head of the science division and supervise all of the -ologists at the park, so from that standpoint I am not in a 2181 position like the one you are looking at, and the park units I support are pretty fixed wing dependent.

As far as your question regarding making a career; I have made a career out of the NPS in King Salmon. The government is not the best place to build flight hours, it is not the highest pay, but we do have interesting flight assignments and, at least where I am flying, some of the most diverse assignments. But it is not for everybody. Sometimes people get frustrated with some of the differences. One of those is that we pretty much treat everybody in the plane as a crewmember, which entails more training, more extensive and detailed preflight briefings, and the right and ability for anybody on the plane to cancel the mission at any point. Another is the fairly specific and sometimes even onerous process of getting all the different mission capabilities onto your card via training and checkrides.

Things that I would ask if I was interviewed would include the variety of the missions that the pilot will need to be conducting, the existing fleet and whether it is sufficient for what people need you to accomplish, and the level of support for the startup training and approvals.

I thought the pension was much better with the LE or Fire add on? Hours wise I’m pretty good, not really needing to build time, and if it’s a full stop career not like I’d be building hours to get a different job, more looking to do quality flying, hopefully be able to grow in the agency, and have a good quality of life.

“Pension” can happen earlier for LE and some fire positions. But are you under age 37? If over that, you don’t qualify for LE .

6C retirement is a topic unto itself. And part time participation may not qualify.

MTV

Under 37, thought it was needing to be under 40 though?

NineThreeKilo wrote:
Under 37, thought it was needing to be under 40 though?

MTV might know the details on LE appointments better than I do, but you can't start an LE appointment as a permanent government career if you are over 37 because LE appointments are required to retire at 57 and it takes 20 years to qualify for retirement from an LE position. Rather than create an entire workforce of people forced to retire but not eligible to do so, they will not let anybody start after 37.

But like MTV says, if it is not full time duty, the position may or may not qualify for the LE retirement coverage.

I have no real comment on the LE positions except that if you are going to do LE, it should be because you are interested in and willing for the LE side of the job. LE training and time commitment is similar to flight training and time commitment, so it is a lot to get into if it isn't something you are really passionate about.

Troy

Troy Hamon wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:
Under 37, thought it was needing to be under 40 though?

MTV might know the details on LE appointments better than I do, but you can't start an LE appointment as a permanent government career if you are over 37 because LE appointments are required to retire at 57 and it takes 20 years to qualify for retirement from an LE position. Rather than create an entire workforce of people forced to retire but not eligible to do so, they will not let anybody start after 37.

But like MTV says, if it is not full time duty, the position may or may not qualify for the LE retirement coverage.

I have no real comment on the LE positions except that if you are going to do LE, it should be because you are interested in and willing for the LE side of the job. LE training and time commitment is similar to flight training and time commitment, so it is a lot to get into if it isn't something you are really passionate about.

Troy

How’s the retirement as a pilot only?

From my math it’s like 30k a year plus you get your SS, if it still exists, so that would be retirement at about 50k per year USD?

Troy Hamon wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:
Under 37, thought it was needing to be under 40 though?

MTV might know the details on LE appointments better than I do, but you can't start an LE appointment as a permanent government career if you are over 37 because LE appointments are required to retire at 57 and it takes 20 years to qualify for retirement from an LE position. Rather than create an entire workforce of people forced to retire but not eligible to do so, they will not let anybody start after 37.

But like MTV says, if it is not full time duty, the position may or may not qualify for the LE retirement coverage.

I have no real comment on the LE positions except that if you are going to do LE, it should be because you are interested in and willing for the LE side of the job. LE training and time commitment is similar to flight training and time commitment, so it is a lot to get into if it isn't something you are really passionate about.

Troy

What Troy said, times four! Most federal LE these days requires close to a year to become “fully qualified”. That’s a big commitment for the applicant and the agency. And the unit loses that employee to training for a lot of that. For that reason and a lot of others, as Troy says, LE isn’t a job anyone should get into unless they are passionate about that job.

Basic federal retirement is based on grade and time in service. Since the subject position is part time permanent, you have to count months, not just years you work. It can get complicated, and I’d talk to an OPM officer about that, especially the part time aspect.

MTV

I wondered about this part of the work statement: "You will have the option to continue your health coverage while in non-pay status."

MTV or Troy, do you know if that means one would have to use COBRA for insurance? That would be very expensive. Or does the government carry it for you?

Sean