Right or wrong, here was my approach.

First, I had a mentor that knows the plane I was looking for inside and out, and who had a pretty good pulse on the market for that plane.

Second, I looked at several so that when I went to see it, I had a pretty good feel for where it fell as far as being good or bad compared to what was out there (it was a 205 so not a big sampling at any given time.)

Third, I used Aopa's Vref as a starting point for the price and worked up or down from there based on how it was equipped and where it fell in the best to worst range of what was currently on the market.

Lastly, and probably the most important, a good prebuy from an independent third party. Recently a friend helped an acquaintance buy a plane and I was asked for my opinion. It looked good but I prefaced every comment with "depending on how the prebuy and logbook review goes". Well, the guy didn't do a prebuy and went only off of talking to the previous few owners and the mechanic that had been maintaining the plane. Ends up the logs had been pencil whipped and some major, costly ADs hadn't been complied with. All stuff that should have been found by a thorough logbook inspection and prebuy. Now this guy is spending thousands more to get the plane airworthy. Not to mention that it is through the prebuy that things can be found to negotiate the price down. In this case, he should have just walked away.

Good luck!


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Too many variables to really gain anything from a percentage of asking price IMHO


I think of nice solid 170Bs in the 30-40 k range, 50-60k with 180hp.

soyAnarchisto wrote:50-60k is early 180 territory. I paid about 84% of my sellers asking price.

akaviator wrote:I'm resurrecting this thread to continue the discussion in today's market.

I was just looking at buying a 170A that was all the way across the country, putting a lot of trust in the previous two annuals as written in the log books, and trying to get an appraisal that after trying to get the appraiser lined up I lost confidence in him and backed out on making an offer.

I'm a TAP subscriber and have the NAAA estimator service with that. Being optimistic (to establish a top of market value) on the condition of the plane, which appears to be pretty nice and has had a LOT spent on the last two annuals I scored the plane as an "8" in all areas, entered the actual engine time (about 1200 SMOH) and avionics, and came out with a valuation of approx. $27,500 against an asking price of about $37,000. This is a huge difference in my opinion.

I'm not a airplane dealer, and not a wheeler dealer. I'm willing to pay what true market value is, but in this case it appears that asking price is about 30% over current market value?

I see guys asking $50-60K for a 170B and it just seems pretty high to me.

Everybody wants there bird to be worth more but it's really difficult to figure out what these planes are actually selling for!

Educate me.

In the ads posted online early 180s are advertised at $75000 and up unless they are wore out or hail damaged.

I have a local 59 182B that's about as nice as one could be, the owner was asking $55,000 and it's been listed for a long time. I called him to see if he would accept an offer and he said no he was probably going to raise the price to $58,000.

daedaluscan wrote:Too many variables to really gain anything from a percentage of asking price IMHO


I think of nice solid 170Bs in the 30-40 k range, 50-60k with 180hp.

That's kind of what I was thinking, but nice ones seem to be 30-40k for a 170A, 50-60k for a B model, and there's a 180hp bird listed for $74,500!

My kids tell me I am out of touch. Might be true:)

akaviator wrote:...I have a local 59 182B that's about as nice as one could be, the owner was asking $55,000 and it's been listed for a long time. I called him to see if he would accept an offer and he said no he was probably going to raise the price to $58,000.

I knew a guy who had a plane for sale & it just wasn't getting any interest.
Although I thought it was crazy, he just jacked up the price a time or two until finally someone bought it.
Just goes to show you what I know!

There was a straight tail 182 on my local craigslist for almost two years for $29.9k. Hangared, straight and basic.

I never called the guy because I didn't have most of $29.9k in my wallet. It has since sold but I think it was overlooked by many because it was too cheap.

I concur that you need to know what they're going for in order to make a reasonable offer. In my experience "blue book" values are a joke for most vehicles passing through my hands.

The only prebuy inspection thorough enough to catch everything is a complete annual by someone familiar with the breed. Much of the time this gets abbreviated to "I would like to bring my buddy who is an A&P" and there are plenty of sellers who tire of the plane being torn into by mechanics they don't know (i wouldn't thrill to the idea of flying my family around in a plane that had been "inspected" by sleep deprived mechanics doing a solid for their pal).

Me, I had been scanning ads for two years. I followed rabbit trails for many different planes that either fit my mission statement or would have caused me to alter my mission.

For planes across the country you need to factor in several things. Cost to get there and fuel expenses to fly it home. Even if you have buddy passes, how many planes can you objectively examine before it eats into your airplane budget?

For the "prebuy" you either need to find a local to review the plane before you get there or bring your own mechanic. If you can't vet a plane from 2k miles away how can you vet a mechanic? If you're bringing your own you need to pay his whole way ( see remark about diminishing airplane budget)

I've ferried two planes clear across the country for buyers. One was a real nice C172 with a fantastic panel (HSI, king stack, etc) and new interior. On the trip home the nose strut went flat, the vacuum pump went TU while I was in IMC and the turn coordinator shorted out from bad wiring.

The other was a real nice cardinal rg. 3 blade, leather interior, modern paint. Beautiful. In 850 miles I would discover fuel leaks and crazy electrical issues ( great combination, right?) plus the gear wouldn't come up every time. It cost about $13k to bring that plane into usable condition. The C172 only took $4500...

For anyone about to ask why I didn't terminate those flights, I was younger then and needed hours.

Anyway, in my case it was going to eat 15-20% of my budget if I was honest about the actual costs of retrieving the plane from Georgia or North Carolina.

I started looking at it differently. If I could buy locally I could buy 15-20% more airplane.

Also, learn to review the logbook yourself. It's a real education. For example if you know some of the history like a gear up or prop strike the logs won't say those evil words. It will say engine removed, dismantled and inspected per blah, blah. New crankshaft, blah, blah and something about a prop.

Thrown in with an annual it can look like it just was up for overhaul anyway.

It's a little hard to miss "belly skins replaced" but some unscrupulous sellers prefer logbooks that imply NDH and will make them appear as such. "Paint touched up add needed"

Speaking of which, my plane is 52 years old and so are most of yours. She ain't a virgin and that's okay because I'm going to take her on some rough dates.

And on the flip side, I've owned some vehicles which were sought after by others and have found that pristine examples fetch very little premium. A museum piece with nearly zero use just becomes a regular, nice car/motorcycle/plane when you wheel it outside and start using it.

Sometimes the woman of your dreams is right under your nose. I've known the seller of my plane for over twenty years and also know who owned it before him. I know where the plane had been and how it had been treated. I've known the mechanics who have done most of the annuals.

I ended up with a turnkey no squawk aircraft for a fair price.

aftCG wrote:....Sometimes the woman of your dreams is right under your nose. I've known the seller of my plane for over twenty years and also know who owned it before him. I know where the plane had been and how it had been treated. I've known the mechanics who have done most of the annuals. I ended up with a turnkey no squawk aircraft for a fair price.

Very similar to how I bought mine. Knew the owner for a number of years, knew his IA, lots of other friends & acquaintances in common, never heard a bad word about the airplane -- in fact, quite the opposite. It had a few very minor issues to address (don't they all!!) but overall a great airplane for a fair price.

aftCG wrote: Speaking of which, my plane is 52 years old and so are most of yours. She ain't a virgin and that's okay because I'm going to take her on some rough dates.

That right there made this thread worth following! [emoji3][emoji3]

Good advice. Especially about learning how to read logbooks yourself. As for vetting a mechanic a long ways away, I've found and seen this group as an excellent resource in finding a straight shooter in just about any part of the country.

I was lucky in that I could move around the country at minimal cost. Otherwise, that could have quickly become a logistical and costly nightmare. Definitely something to figure in. The first plane I looked at was in upstate Washington near the Canadian border. An hour plus flight followed by a three+ hour drive. Within minutes of seeing the plane, it was ruled out. Turned around and drove the three+ hours back. Flew home the next morning after a short night in a hotel. One day and less than $200 bucks with a days notice. Being able to do that was a big benefit.


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I paid 100%. Why? The owner had already brought the price down AND he was willing to take have down and half in 3 months. I wasn't going to haggle and mess up that deal.

I'd say around 90% ish.... paid basically asking price but got a condition inspection and delivery worked in as part of the deal.

I paid a fair price, didn't steal it, and didn't get bent over. Can't complain about that as it was my first airplane purchase so I was a little in over my head in some ways... came out ok. The folks that were selling the plane for someone else are builders and very decent/helpful folks, we are friends still!!

I paid 100% of asking for my Tri Pacer...but I saw the add 24 hours after a $7K price reduction, and while it was still a few $K above what I hoped to spend, the plane happened to be within 200 miles, so the convenience of location/cost savings I'd have on ferrying vs. the other aircraft I was looking at sealed the deal. That the plane was an Oshkosh winner, near perfect restoration done in 2014, certainly helped the seller keeping the price firm - and I hope that'll carry over when I sell as well.

evanr42 wrote:I paid 100% of asking for my Tri Pacer...but I saw the add 24 hours after a $7K price reduction, and while it was still a few $K above what I hoped to spend, the plane happened to be within 200 miles, so the convenience of location/cost savings I'd have on ferrying vs. the other aircraft I was looking at sealed the deal. That the plane was an Oshkosh winner, near perfect restoration done in 2014, certainly helped the seller keeping the price firm - and I hope that'll carry over when I sell as well.

You got a deal and a show winner, can't argue with that!

I paid 100% of asking price for my current '65 Champion 7ECA. I saw the Barnstormer's listing within minutes of it posting on the site, and called the owner immediately. I knew the market - had been looking for a 7ECA with O-200 for months, and his asking price was fair for the condition of the airplane – assuming it was "as described". It was also only 100 miles away, which would save me the cost of ferrying the plane, and traveling for a pre-purchase inspection. I agreed to purchase it on that first call, at his asking price, with the only proviso being that it was "as described" when I came to look at it (the next day). It was, so we finalized the purchase. Less than four hours later, he called me back, wanting to confirm that I really intended to come see the plane the next day, and really did plan to buy it if it was as described... Turns out he had received more than 30 phone calls from people wanting to purchase it, sight unseen, with zero inspection, but was honoring our verbal agreement. Upon inspection, the plane was exactly as described, and I'm enjoying owning it and flying it to this day.

My previous 100% asking price purchase was a Grumman Traveler I bought as my first airplane. The airplane had some damage history, but it had been repaired by a shop known to be "the best in the business" for Grumman American aircraft. The price was reasonable, the airplane was gorgeous - inside and out, and it was well-equipped for my needs. I agreed to purchase for the asking price, less any "airworthiness" issued found during pre-purchase inspection. The A&P/IA who did the pre-buy for me told me the only thing he could find wrong was a small area of the canopy seal that had come loose - about 2 inches - but could be easily fixed in <5 minutes. He also told me that if I was NOT going to buy the plane, to let him know, because he wanted it if I didn't. It turned out to be a great deal - flew it for three years, and sold it for more than I paid for it. New buyer what thrilled as well...

Looking back I'm fortunate that buying and selling my planes turned out great if I forget the lowball insults.
Isn't it stressful to be subject to abuse be patient and realise where you should be buying or selling ?
I have great memories of my planes. First plane, first comment , I hope that's not it ! looking through an old shed door.
The 180HP Skyhawk was covered in bird crap and dirt. A very kind old crop duster in ND showed up and said we should go
have coffee. Quinten G was so interesting I didn't want to leave. He gave us a ride and I agreed to his price without a pre buy.
It turned out to be a perfect plane for many years, and the Farmer in Ohio I took it to with no deposit, still has the plane many years.
Selling my Skywagon was terrible with low ballers and new pilots expecting free education of everything Skywagon,and hundreds of questions..Even Pilots of this and other forums assuming its OK to expect a seller to educate them when they were not a buyer.
We have to wait for the right person who appreciates and wants the plane. If you both know the value and trust the seller Its easier.
My every actual buyer and seller became friends at the asking price.I didn't search or pre buy. Been Very Lucky but won't do that again.
A Funny one, I had a nice Dodge 3/4T & Boss V plow, after low ballers were getting to me, I raised the price and it sold in a week.
Tail Winds to you