After talking to a few people on this subject there seems to be quite the disparity in what percentage of the asking price people actually wind up paying.
Granted, much of this can be attributed to the buyer's haggling or people skills, knowledge of the specific type, financial situation and a myriad of of other factors.

So... for those of you have purchased a plane, or, for that matter, those who have sold a plane, what did you see in asking price vs final sale?

I'm just trying to get a feel for where to start out with an offer so as not to be a low baller, but also to get the best price that I can.

I searched and didn't seem to find any discussion on BCP on this subject so I hope I'm not asking taboo questions, if so, please disregard and return to your regularly scheduled surfing.

Thanks in advance
SD

Hard to answer a question like this. Some sellers may ask for the fair market value of their plane, while others may ask for the moon. If I was a buyer, I would determine what the fair market value of the plane is and probably offer 10% to 15% less and see what happens. If you make a sincere offer and do not come off as arrogant/a jerk, you have at least opened it up to negotiation.

Steve

My seller was asking a very fair price - and it was not openly advertised. I don't think your poll is really going to help you very much. Lots of judgement involved in buying airplanes (or really anything of value).

I agree it is much better to do your research to establish the fair market value rather than try to beat up the seller.

There are so many variables that each sale will have its own unique circumstances.

Are you prepared to pay cash or will you be financing?

I pay cash for everything I purchase and this method has saved me a fortune.

Is the seller in financial distress?

This unfortunate situation can be a tremendous opportunity to purchase items at fire sale prices.

I would not be concerned about 'Low Balling' an item as your offering price may be all it is worth to you.

As said, do your research and offer what the plane is worth to you. If it is worth the same to the seller then they'll sell it, if not they say no. It is that simple. Sellers that get butt hurt over a lowball price should hire someone else to sell their plane. Same goes for a buyer.

I can't count the number of low ball offers I've received on my plane. Sure, it is kind of annoying but all it takes is a "no" and the buyers looking for something for almost nothing go away and don't come back. Pussy foot around as a seller and those kind of buyers will bother you all day long.

So as a buyer do your research, determine what you are willing to pay and communicate that to the seller just as you would if buying anything else

As others have said, it kinda depends on the "reality" of the price asked. All negotiations start at points higher/lower than the agreed price comes to. Insulting a seller is a bad idea, but at the same time, he should be open to low offers. Counter offering is the means to the end, not just a yes/no answer.

I'll echo what has been said. Do your homework and show your work. By that, I mean document what you find. Using Vref and aircraft listings, I showed the seller of my plane what the market said it was worth, but I also knew that there was a premium to be paid for its condition and how it was equipped. I ended up paying 10% below the asking price. A little more than I wanted to spend, but worth it to get a plane that already had several things I wanted as well as a clean aircraft in great condition. It helped that the seller admitted they had it priced on the high end too and was realistic in his expectations.

I've been on both ends of this question ,when selling add about 20℅ to the asking price ,if buying offer 10-20% less than the asking price. Cash talks like roll of 100s ,50,20 etc. Checks are ??? . I'm not "forced " to sell a airplane except for my wife - not in financial hardship. I have enough Cash to get what I want - or just hold out . Goofy finance plans don't work for me . At present have 3 airplane projects for sale , straight 108 Stinson , 172, 182 all projects. I don't advertise anywhere but will trade for cash,gold, and silver . The "bluebook " guide is out every 3 months and I watch what is actually paid at closing to determine the "net worth " for my for sale projects - Trade a plane is 20-30% higher than the actual trade /sale price . The fanincer the paint,radios,entire etc the higher the price - I'm more concerned about airframe is good to excellent, engines can be overhauled ,paint changed etc.

The posturing is not fun to me unless it's a salesman. If it's a fellow pilot, and something I'm interested in, I usually ask if I can do an inspection/appraisal on it. Their reaction speaks volumes. If they agree, they are probably selling an honest airplane for a fair price. If they stammer and don't provide a good reason for balking, I usually move on. Getting a bargain isn't as important as feeling like you're flying something that was well cared for. I've paid full price plus gratuity for things I value and I've looked at a few that I wouldn't care to own if they were gifted to me. Cars are a different story, I make Mexicans blush.

Thanks for all the input guys. The seller was/is asking a fair price so I made an offer which was accepted this afternoon. As most of you know and as I am learning, the deal's not done until the deal's done. There's still a title search as well as a pre-buy to be done which may well effect things. As of now though, I have made an offer concurrent with what the plane is worth to me and it has been accepted.

Thanks for the help all
SD

Just make sure that your Pre-Buy Inspection is VERY THOROUGH.

Many suggest that you have a qualified IA that is very familiar with the type do an actual Annual on the aircraft. While this is certainly more expensive it may find a real problem which could be quite expensive to fix.

Congratulations and best of luck moving forward.

And if its an old airplane, even if Orville himself does the prebuy, be prepared for maintenance and/or paperwork issues that arise anyway. It's a fact of life.

Good luck on getting a good one, and welcome to the boat anchor around the neck club of AC ownership. There's nothing quite like it.

Best of luck and let us know how she turns out.

I'll surely keep you lot up to date once things get final or at least more final.

SD

I never negotiate the price until I have seen/inspected the aircraft.
I have sold quite a few airplanes over the years and I never negotiate the price with
a buyer until they see it.
Dave

d.grimm wrote:I never negotiate the price until I have seen/inspected the aircraft.
I have sold quite a few airplanes over the years and I never negotiate the price with
a buyer until they see it.

I've said this here before, but it must have been on another thread. Given the cost associated with going to visit an airplane and get an inspection, my attitude is exactly the opposite of this. I would never pay for an inspection nor fly to see a plane until I have negotiated a price with the seller. The phrasing in any preliminary agreement needs to contain language indicating that the price is "as described" and then a complete description. Then, if you show up and the interior is really a 5/10 or the GPS doesn't work or the engine has low compression you can feel no compunction about walking away, but in the vast majority of cases where the plane is as advertised you know what your deal is going to look like before you spend the first nickel on it.

I'm resurrecting this thread to continue the discussion in today's market.

I was just looking at buying a 170A that was all the way across the country, putting a lot of trust in the previous two annuals as written in the log books, and trying to get an appraisal that after trying to get the appraiser lined up I lost confidence in him and backed out on making an offer.

I'm a TAP subscriber and have the NAAA estimator service with that. Being optimistic (to establish a top of market value) on the condition of the plane, which appears to be pretty nice and has had a LOT spent on the last two annuals I scored the plane as an "8" in all areas, entered the actual engine time (about 1200 SMOH) and avionics, and came out with a valuation of approx. $27,500 against an asking price of about $37,000. This is a huge difference in my opinion.

I'm not a airplane dealer, and not a wheeler dealer. I'm willing to pay what true market value is, but in this case it appears that asking price is about 30% over current market value?

I see guys asking $50-60K for a 170B and it just seems pretty high to me.

Everybody wants there bird to be worth more but it's really difficult to figure out what these planes are actually selling for!

Educate me.

Bought a 180 this year and ended up paying 15% under asking/list price. The plane was as described with no issues to be argued against after an annual I had done. I like to believe that the final deal was fair to both parties without a real "winner".

I don't know if that's bad, normal, or good, but just a data point for you. My initial offer was about 20% below asking. Hope this info could be useful for you.

-asa

50-60k is early 180 territory. I paid about 84% of my sellers asking price.

akaviator wrote:I'm resurrecting this thread to continue the discussion in today's market.

I was just looking at buying a 170A that was all the way across the country, putting a lot of trust in the previous two annuals as written in the log books, and trying to get an appraisal that after trying to get the appraiser lined up I lost confidence in him and backed out on making an offer.

I'm a TAP subscriber and have the NAAA estimator service with that. Being optimistic (to establish a top of market value) on the condition of the plane, which appears to be pretty nice and has had a LOT spent on the last two annuals I scored the plane as an "8" in all areas, entered the actual engine time (about 1200 SMOH) and avionics, and came out with a valuation of approx. $27,500 against an asking price of about $37,000. This is a huge difference in my opinion.

I'm not a airplane dealer, and not a wheeler dealer. I'm willing to pay what true market value is, but in this case it appears that asking price is about 30% over current market value?

I see guys asking $50-60K for a 170B and it just seems pretty high to me.

Everybody wants there bird to be worth more but it's really difficult to figure out what these planes are actually selling for!

Educate me.