Hello!

This forum is awesome I have been reading through it learning everything about backcountry flying and I am obsessed. I am a software/systems engineer in Littleton, Colorado with a remote pilots license and I'm finally ready to start getting my PPL. Are there any CFIs on here from Colorado that could possibly be my instructor? Or recommendations on flight schools? All help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Pat

More than a decade ago I did some training and rented aircraft from (what I think is) Alliance at Colorado Air and Space Port (Front Range Airport). Seemed good enough. You might look at Aspen Flying Club at Centennial as well. Closer to home. Learning in Denver will be a crash course in complex airspace and talking on the radio at busy airports. Excellent training for urban flying and getting competent with situational awareness. I would not expect anything resembling mountain flying during training.

Hey Pat, always good to see more people pursuing aviation. I split my time between Boulder CO and Alaska, so my info is biased more towards northwest denver. There are many good flight schools around denver, but I have worked for Journey's Aviation in Boulder and they are pretty affordable with good planes. Rocky Mountain Flight School at KBJC in Broomfield will also be one of the cheapest flight schools but the planes can be a little rough at times. The schools mentioned in the Aspen group are pretty expensive but have nice airplanes.

There are other users on here based at Centennial who can chime in with those specifics.

-Asa

Welcome Pat. I trained at KensAir at Jeffco in the early 60s. Ken Hoffman was a great instructor and I think the Rocky Mountain school bought him out. If you want to fly in and out of Denver, Aspen would probably be the best training. A lot of training time is lost waiting on traffic and talking at busy tower airports. Read my stuff to be sure you are able to maneuver sufficiently to stay in your lane on the parallel runways there. Minimum 20 degree bank doesn't cut it when downwind sends your track across centerline extended of the other runway and you hit a metroliner. If it is just backcountry you are interested in, find an instructor at an outlying airport or go north as far as crop dusting country. If you use Aspen and want to just do backcountry, tell the instructor the desert is just east and I want to fly there or the mountains.

Understand that there are two ways to get around in B airspace. IFR is very safe with full assistance of ATC. Low is very safe but don't bother ATC. I flew pipeline through there and never talked to other than tower. Below the layers of the upside down cake, we are not in B. VFR near B altitude is the least safe. 200' where the crop dusters and pipeline guys are is safe. Except for city and residential, it is all desert anyway. Centennial is nicely near the desert.

My son is in your kind of work near Centennial. He worked for a company, five employs there started their own company, and they have sold that company. Stuff happens fast in your industry.

I’d skip centennial if it were me. You’ll spend a lot of every hour on the ground between the tie down and the runway. The only bad hung about Front Range (spaceport) is the drive. You’ll log more time flying and less time taxiing and arguing with ATC.

Alliance sold out to Aspen, but the owner opened a new school called Front Range flight school (I think).

Hey Debug,

Welcome! You may have heard much of this before but here are a few things I learned from my PPL training experience about 2.5 years ago.
For me it was a huge help to have my written exam done prior to starting my in airplane training. Really helped make my time and money spent with an instructor and rent aircraft worthwhile. I listened to the Live ATC app quite a bit as well this prepped me for the radio work.
I did my training at Front Range Flight School at KCFO (then KFTG). Was very pleased with my experience there. Talked with them about my schedule needs (which barred many other options I had looked into) and them having quite a few primary instructors helped me find one that matched well. They had nicely structured program with stage checks etc. Me being a complete newbie to aviation they really helped hold my hand so to speak. That being said there wasn't much in the way of backcountry training in their program at that time. I do know of a couple guys with a 140 partnership up at KEIK that do PPL and tailwheel training if your more interested in that approach (don't know if they are full up currently though). Good Luck on your journey! Enjoy it!

-COkoolaid

My advice for what its worth, separate the two elements. Focus on your PPL, it's a load on it's own and then expand your knowledge with a well seasoned back country mentor.

I’ll second that I completed my written exam before I started flying

Thanks for all the responses!

I am planning on getting my knowledge test out of the way ASAP along with my medical. I purchased the Sporty's online course for 199 already and have my medical visit in a week.

Seems like the Rocky Mountain Flight School, Front Range Flight School, and Aspen Flying Club are popular options. Does anyone know the instructor rates at Rocky Mountain Flight School and Front Range Flight School? I've already talked to the people at Aspen and you have to join their club for $35 a month + $100/yr then the instructor rates are $55/hr.

Has anyone gone the route of training with a CFI directly vs going through a school?

I also have a dream of building either a kitfox s7 STI or my current favorite the Rans S-21 Outbound. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Pat

Hmm, I’d vote for the S-21 but I am biased. Photo was taken this week at Deadwood Reservoir in Idaho

Debug wrote:Thanks for all the responses!

I am planning on getting my knowledge test out of the way ASAP along with my medical. I purchased the Sporty's online course for 199 already and have my medical visit in a week.

Seems like the Rocky Mountain Flight School, Front Range Flight School, and Aspen Flying Club are popular options. Does anyone know the instructor rates at Rocky Mountain Flight School and Front Range Flight School? I've already talked to the people at Aspen and you have to join their club for $35 a month + $100/yr then the instructor rates are $55/hr.

Has anyone gone the route of training with a CFI directly vs going through a school?

I also have a dream of building either a kitfox s7 STI or my current favorite the Rans S-21 Outbound. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Pat

Pat,

Their instructor rate is $42 which is cheap. This also means their instructors aren't getting paid much, so take that for what it's worth. When I do CFI work on the side, I charge $50/hour and there is no flight school taking any portion of that.

I know the owner fairly well and will say the only downside to RMFS is that the planes can appear in rough condition sometimes. Can't beat the prices and aircraft selection though. $115/hour for a C182 is hard to find.

I've done the individual instructor route and "flight school" route although honestly a part 61 school like RMFS is not really a flight school as it is a group of instructors with a lead instructor giving them some oversight. That's not at all a bad thing - find an instructor you like and go for it. I would not personally pursue the route of a part 141 Flight School because I do not like structure for the sole sake of structure.

At a towered airport, rates can appear cheaper because they aren't paying as much fuel per hour. Want to actually FLY for an hour? That's 1.4 hours at a towered airport vs 1.1 hours at a non towered airport where you can just taxi out to the runway and blast.

I trained with an instructor at a small airport (UT9) in Utah and it was great, no school bs, non-towered and never wasted time on the ground with traffic or ATC. No, UT-9 is not an option for you, but a small and similar operation is the way I would go. I would never shy away from a plane with a poor paint job, as long as it is functional and safe go for it.

Getting your certificate is about maximizing your time and money. Learn on a 6-pack, it is they way to go in my opinion. I fly G3X glass now, it it would not be the fastest way to learn in my opinion.

Another issue with airports like centennial, where I did my first 16 hours, is that with those LONG runways one lap around the pattern takes a considerable amount of time. And, with so much traffic, I recall extending downwind, or doing a left 360 to help with spacing. Not much practice for the hours on the meter.
I used Aspen in 2016, I was not impressed. When I stopped flying there, they kept charging my card for the monthly fee. It took several phone calls and a couple of months, I think I finally had to refuse the charges on the credit card to get them to wake up. And, frequently the plane availability made scheduling very difficult.

Try to find a part 61 school at a smaller airport that maintains their airplanes well and has happy instructors. DO NOT pay up front for more than a few hours of flying! Paying for the whole course up front for a reduced rate is very risky. At this stage don't concern yourself with back country flying, that will come later. Have fun!

Kurt

Utah-Jay wrote:Hmm, I’d vote for the S-21 but I am biased. Photo was taken this week at Deadwood Reservoir in Idaho

That is awesome! Did you build the kit?

Thanks for all the great info!

Debug wrote:

Utah-Jay wrote:Hmm, I’d vote for the S-21 but I am biased. Photo was taken this week at Deadwood Reservoir in Idaho

That is awesome! Did you build the kit?

Thanks for all the great info!

Nope, it was a factory build

Where can I find backcountry flying locations? I would love to check them out.

Most of the state recreational associations seem to have "local" maps of the various sites. Many years ago in Eastern Canada the Flying Farmer Association put together a map of their members personal strips and it was a great resource.

Most of the techniques can be learned on whatever airport you train on in whatever airplane you train in. That first. For an engine power cushion, up in the mountains, it is helpful to train in low powered aircraft. Otherwise, you expect that much zoom out of the engine. That will not happen. Airspeed=zoom. Engine thrust=Vx or Vy, but no guarantee.

Get your PPL then come on down to Del Norte sometime. My friend Jay has a 100hp (at our altitude, more like 70) champ that he does instruction in. Tailwheel, dirt strips. Just like Contact says, learn to fly the wing.
As far as checking out backcountry strips, check out www.airfield.guide
Very useful tool.
Tom