Greetings all!

I'm a 540ish hour pilot. I've had my ppl for 6 years. I am planning to fly my 1981 Skylane 182RG to Alaska from Utah (and back) in August. I have flown in Alaska quite a bit, but never to. I have a tailwheel endorsement, my float rating and have flown ski planes and landed on a glacier in the Talkeetna Mountain range (so cool!). I have devoured all the info I can find on the subject of flying to Alaska here on BackCountryPilot.org as well as other places. HUGE thanks and Shout Out to Cory Wolf and all the others that have contributed. Cory and others have even been willing to talk to me in the real world about my questions. Serious thanks!!! It really helps to have contacts with some dudes/dudettes that have gone before. I am so excited for this trip! I have three major questions about my trip at this point that I would like some advice from you experts about.

1. Performance considerations and operating a retractable 182 on non-paved runways.
2. People/places to see and general advice on my itinerary.
3. Carrying a pistol in Alaska (along with Bear Spray).

Thanks for any input in advance!

I will detail my ramblings below on each of these; I would love to hear any thoughts. Plus, I’d love to come meet some of you folks on the way there or the way back. I’m keeping my plans super flexible, so I can do what I want and what feels right as the mood moves me. I may be going solo, but right now my brother says he’ll be tagging along. We’ll see if he follows through.

Skylane Retractable:
I’ve read/heard/seen a bunch of trash talk about retracts, so I don’t really need to hear that they suck, although I’m willing to hear opinions. I’d really like to hear from people that have flown retracts and have landed on dirt/gravel/turf and what parameters they use to decide on whether to attempt a landing at a particular location. Also what kind of maintenance equipment to bring along. Right now, I’ve tentatively decided that I will only land on a strip that is labelled as “good gravel” or something similar. There is one strip that I would like to visit PAKL-Kulik Lake. It is labelled as “fair gravel” and the comments say “Runway 07/25 surface: Surface covered uniformly with loose 2 to 5 inch stones.” If anyone has landed there, I’d love to hear your thoughts. 2” stones, don’t worry me too much, 5” stones definitely worry me, since I have little bitty wheels. One more place I’d like to land is Chinitna Bay. I plan to get a CFI familiar with 182’s to take me there from Homer and land under his/her supervision. I welcome any thoughts on that as well.

’81 Performance Specs:
I’ve been practicing my short field techniques and comparing my abilities and the plane performance with the Performance pages in the POH. Generally speaking, if I add a 50% buffer to the ground roll shown in the POH for the weight, pressure altitude and temperature, I am able to surpass those numbers on a paved runway, without issue. (For instance the POH said 1360’ ground roll, adding 50% buffer gives me 2040 - I actually made it off the ground in 1500’; This was with a DA of 7500). I plan to test on some gravel and turf runways as well. I have tentatively decided that 2000’ strips are the shortest I will attempt, although I think both me and the plane could do better. Especially at sea level. Anyone think that 2000’ is too short? Also, I want to fly into the Skwentna (PASW) strip. I’d love any thoughts about that strip from those who have visited, as well.

Pistol:
I won’t carry a shotgun or rifle while fishing; too bulky and I would never take it along. I do always carry bear spray when in Alaska. I want my pistol with me; for bears, sure. But I’m really more worried about bad guys. I think I have a better likelihood of running into a bad guy than being attacked by a bear. Since I can’t legally transport a pistol through Canada, I’ve decided my only option is to procure/rent/buy a pistol in Alaska when I get there. The other option is to mail one to myself (or a FFL holder) in Alaska, then mail it home. Of course, this is also a big fat pain in the neck. Any thoughts? Any ideas on a good FFL dealer or place I could pick up a pistol and then re-sale? I plan to enter Alaska at Northway then stop at Tok for fuel…. I’d love to know how other pistol-packers handle this dilemma.

Tentative Itinerary:
Jul 31 - Day One
Church - Off to Dorothy Scott Area? (4.5 hrs)
Aug 1 - Day Two
To Penticton - Clear Customs
To Beaver Creek Area? (8 hrs)
Aug 2 - Day Three
To Northway - Clear Customs
On to Lawing (3.5 hrs)
Aug 3 - Day Four
Float Plane Training at Moose Pass
Aug 4 - Day Five
Fishing?
Aug 5 - Day Six
To Homer (1/2 hr)
CFI to Chinitna Bay?
Aug 6 - Day Seven
Homer to Igiugig (1 hr)

Aug 7
King Salmon?
Aniak?
Other?

Aug 8

Aug 9
To Talkeetna
Montana Creek
Aug 10

Aug 11

Aug 12

Aug 13

Aug 14
To Northway
Aug 15
To Beaver Creek - Clear Customs
Fish Some cool place in Canada
Aug 16
To Penticton
Aug 17
To Dorothy Scott - Clear Customs
Fly Home (4.5 hrs)

Thanks for any input!
Chad

Your day 6, 7, and 8 are where I will make recommendations. Not much to see or do in/around igiugig. I would take those 3 days and base in Port Alsworth. There is fuel, lodging, hiking, fishing, camping, etc. Aircraft maintenance and support. All in a village off the road system. It's in a National Park. There's a food truck and a coffee shop. Not one but TWO 3000' gravel runways. Trust me, it's where you want to be if you're weathered in anywhere southwest of anchorage.

If weather allows, launch from PTA and head south down to fly the Katmai National Park mountains. Battle Lake is the bluest of blue water I've ever seen. See the Valley of Ten Thousand Smokes. The big volcanos. In a 182RG that's a half day so might as well stop in Naknek for pizza for lunch which will let you see the power of the Bristol Bay fishing industry. Fly the return trip over the flat tundra to get that experience. Look for caribou herds.

If you have spare time and don't get weathered in (ha), there's plenty of other beautiful flying from PTA. You must fly Lake Clark Pass either coming or going, it's incredible. Chinitna bay is closer to PTA than to Homer. I'm happy to give you some float training if my flying schedule allows.

If you really want to push down the AK peninsula, the landscape south of Port Heiden, on the ocean side of the peninsula (southwest) is incredible and otherworldly. But that's a long flight and the weather isn't known to be great.

asa wrote:Your day 6, 7, and 8 are where I will make recommendations. Not much to see or do in/around igiugig. I would take those 3 days and base in Port Alsworth. There is fuel, lodging, hiking, fishing, camping, etc. Aircraft maintenance and support. All in a village off the road system. It's in a National Park. There's a food truck and a coffee shop. Not one but TWO 3000' gravel runways. Trust me, it's where you want to be if you're weathered in anywhere southwest of anchorage.

If weather allows, launch from PTA and head south down to fly the Katmai National Park mountains. Battle Lake is the bluest of blue water I've ever seen. See the Valley of Ten Thousand Smokes. The big volcanos. In a 182RG that's a half day so might as well stop in Naknek for pizza for lunch which will let you see the power of the Bristol Bay fishing industry. Fly the return trip over the flat tundra to get that experience. Look for caribou herds.

If you have spare time and don't get weathered in (ha), there's plenty of other beautiful flying from PTA. You must fly Lake Clark Pass either coming or going, it's incredible. Chinitna bay is closer to PTA than to Homer. I'm happy to give you some float training if my flying schedule allows.

If you really want to push down the AK peninsula, the landscape south of Port Heiden, on the ocean side of the peninsula (southwest) is incredible and otherworldly. But that's a long flight and the weather isn't known to be great.

ASA: Thanks for the reply. Awesome info. I have actually flown Lake Clark pass in a tri-pacer. My wife and I absolutely loved that trip... We flew from Talkeetna to Iliamna, then on to King Salmon. Clearly, your advice is stellar. I saw Port Alsworth from the air and wanted to land there, but didn't have time. I will definitely make it a point to base out of there on your recommendation. Are you based in PTA? I'd love to get some float training if you're available...

Yeah I’m based here until late September. We usually have a pacer on floats available for training but honestly in the busy season there are no guarantees. Even if I can’t do training I’d be more than happy to draw out some scenic routes/destinations on the maps.

PTA has fuel of all types despite not saying so on the sectional.

Right on! I look forward to meeting you…

Agreed with the Port Alsworth recommendation. Hike up to Tanalian Falls - it is absolutely stunning, and the grayling fishing is really, really good.

As for the handgun, I wouldn't bother with the hassle. I've lived here for 44 years. While I do carry one on my chest while fishing on occasion, in all that time I've never had the need for one. I've had run-ins with bears, not so much with people. For such a short trip and with the Canada issues, that would be way down the list of things to concern yourself with.

Lots of info at http://fly2ak.com.

FYI, you cannot clear Canadian customs carrying a pistol.

Have an awesome trip!

Sounds like an awesome trip, I'm jealous. Can't comment on the AK part as I've yet to head that way myself but I can give an anecdotal bit about the 182RG.

We have a 79 R182, fantastic bird for what it is. Biased obviously, but I'm not an RG hater - drag belongs on a cub, not an XC machine.
I've landed it on turf and some fairly beat up asphalt, can't say as I've dropped in on a gravel strip with it yet. I prefer to keep it on decent asphalt if at all possible, I don't want to become an RG hater and one gear saddle crack might just do that.

Couple years ago my partner and I flew to Maine from Spokane, so we were loaded up pretty good. First leg was to Roundup MT. Mea culpa, I hadn't checked notams there as it was just a leg stretch stop since we started out of our 2400' asphalt strip with 92 gallons onboard. Paved runway at Roundup was ripped up, but the turf was open. Checked it, also 2400' and 3500' MSL - no sweat. We landed - turf was a bit rough but no problem, main thing is don't veer off the runway into the cacti when you park. Walked around, then loaded back up for the next leg.

Takeoff was a bit more eventful - that rough turf was a lot of drag on our skinny mini tires, we ate up all but a few hundred feet of that runway. Still safe margin, but enough to take notice. Also of note, on rotation we caught some bumps on the surface that jostled us a bit and the glovebox flipped open, spilling among other things a pill bottle with spare bulbs and whatnot on my partner. She freaked out a bit while I'm concentrating pretty hard on a High DA turf takeoff. There was a stern hand held up for quiet on the flight deck, established a clean climb, then quick debrief. All good, but since then part of my passenger briefing is I only need to know if we're on fire or dumping gas on takeoff/landing.

TLDR - make sure you do practice on gravel/turf with the RG - the added drag/jostling might surprise you on the increased roll.

If you carry bear spray in the plane make sure it is in a sealed container. Maybe a piece of PVC pipe with a plug on each end? You don't want that stuff leaking while you are flying.

I looked into shipping a handgun to AK this spring. The post office wouldn't take it, FedEx wouldn't take it... the only option was UPS Air. No ground shipment because of Canada. It was going to cost $160 each way. I wound up having a friend bring it in his checked luggage on an airline flight. The one I had brought up is just a .22 for plinking when my grandson comes to visit next month. I don't worry about carrying otherwise. The places you are talking about going aren't known for muggings. Stay out of the bad neighborhoods of Anchorage and you aren't likely to need one. My opinion....

You can probably safely lower your landing strip limitation to 1800 ft.... then you could go to Seldovia. It's worth a visit and far less capable airplanes than a 182 go in there. The good news is that almost anywhere you are likely to go is near sea level and the weather is cool so your performance should be good.

Happy Flying...
Keith

If your itinerary includes King Salmon, let me know. If I can break away I would love to say hi.

Brian M wrote:Agreed with the Port Alsworth recommendation. Hike up to Tanalian Falls - it is absolutely stunning, and the grayling fishing is really, really good.

As for the handgun, I wouldn't bother with the hassle. I've lived here for 44 years. While I do carry one on my chest while fishing on occasion, in all that time I've never had the need for one. I've had run-ins with bears, not so much with people. For such a short trip and with the Canada issues, that would be way down the list of things to concern yourself with.

Thanks Brian for the words of advice. I’ve carried a pistol with me for over 15 years. Never had an issue; never even come close to pulling it…. But still, I’m convinced I’m gonna need it when I don’t have it. But I have finally quit taking it on commercial flights to almost everywhere, but Alaska. Maybe I need to change my ways and not worry about it. I think Mark Twain said something like, “I’ve lived through a lot of hardships in my life and some of them actually happened.” Lol

I’m definitely stopping at Port Alsworth. Tanalian Falls is now on the list. Thanks again!

tedwaltman wrote:Lots of info at http://fly2ak.com.

FYI, you cannot clear Canadian customs carrying a pistol.

Have an awesome trip!

Ted! Yes, I’ve spent quite a bit of time on your website…. Very good info. Thanks for that. I’m very aware that I can’t clear Canadian customs with a pistol. That’s why I’ve decided that I either need to give up on it, buy one there, or ship one up there….

Really appreciate your thoughts and I’m going to have an awesome trip!

DreadPirateWill wrote:Sounds like an awesome trip, I'm jealous. Can't comment on the AK part as I've yet to head that way myself but I can give an anecdotal bit about the 182RG.

We have a 79 R182, fantastic bird for what it is. Biased obviously, but I'm not an RG hater - drag belongs on a cub, not an XC machine.
I've landed it on turf and some fairly beat up asphalt, can't say as I've dropped in on a gravel strip with it yet. I prefer to keep it on decent asphalt if at all possible, I don't want to become an RG hater and one gear saddle crack might just do that.

Couple years ago my partner and I flew to Maine from Spokane, so we were loaded up pretty good. First leg was to Roundup MT. Mea culpa, I hadn't checked notams there as it was just a leg stretch stop since we started out of our 2400' asphalt strip with 92 gallons onboard. Paved runway at Roundup was ripped up, but the turf was open. Checked it, also 2400' and 3500' MSL - no sweat. We landed - turf was a bit rough but no problem, main thing is don't veer off the runway into the cacti when you park. Walked around, then loaded back up for the next leg.

Takeoff was a bit more eventful - that rough turf was a lot of drag on our skinny mini tires, we ate up all but a few hundred feet of that runway. Still safe margin, but enough to take notice. Also of note, on rotation we caught some bumps on the surface that jostled us a bit and the glovebox flipped open, spilling among other things a pill bottle with spare bulbs and whatnot on my partner. She freaked out a bit while I'm concentrating pretty hard on a High DA turf takeoff. There was a stern hand held up for quiet on the flight deck, established a clean climb, then quick debrief. All good, but since then part of my passenger briefing is I only need to know if we're on fire or dumping gas on takeoff/landing.

TLDR - make sure you do practice on gravel/turf with the RG - the added drag/jostling might surprise you on the increased roll.

Thanks for the thoughts on the RG. I hear you on trying to keep it on asphalt, I don’t want to become a RG hater, either. A cracked saddle would certainly create a bunch of expensive stress. I assumed that taking off on a non-paved surface would create more drag; I hadn’t thought about little wheels being more of a concern. I guess that kinda makes sense. I am definitely going to get more un-paved surface work in before I make final decisions…. Thanks again!

kg wrote:If you carry bear spray in the plane make sure it is in a sealed container. Maybe a piece of PVC pipe with a plug on each end? You don't want that stuff leaking while you are flying.

I looked into shipping a handgun to AK this spring. The post office wouldn't take it, FedEx wouldn't take it... the only option was UPS Air. No ground shipment because of Canada. It was going to cost $160 each way. I wound up having a friend bring it in his checked luggage on an airline flight. The one I had brought up is just a .22 for plinking when my grandson comes to visit next month. I don't worry about carrying otherwise. The places you are talking about going aren't known for muggings. Stay out of the bad neighborhoods of Anchorage and you aren't likely to need one. My opinion....

You can probably safely lower your landing strip limitation to 1800 ft.... then you could go to Seldovia. It's worth a visit and far less capable airplanes than a 182 go in there. The good news is that almost anywhere you are likely to go is near sea level and the weather is cool so your performance should be good.

Happy Flying...
Keith

Keith, thanks for checking in. I had heard that we’ll need to put any bear spray into some sort of leak proof container. Thanks for the reminder. That would seriously suck to have pepper spray loose in the cockpit…!!!

Ditto on the pistol shipping issue. I did enough research to realize it would be a serious PIA…. I’ve almost decided to simply live without a gun for the duration of the trip. It’s kind of a security blanket that I’ve packed for 15 years…. Maybe it’s time to cut the apron strings…

I’m putting Seldovia on the tentative itinerary! Thanks for that…. Once I’ve tested more on un-paved surfaces, I’ll make a firm decision. Thanks again.

Troy Hamon wrote:If your itinerary includes King Salmon, let me know. If I can break away I would love to say hi.

Troy! We almost certainly will stop at King Salmon. I’ll reach out if/when we firm up an itinerary. Obviously, we’ll see if the weather cooperates. What do they say, “Man plans and God laughs.”

Check on entry in at Pentiction, on my 2019 trip I thought it was a POE. pulled up to the fuel pit and was informed by another pilot that I might be wrong. Called customs and they concurred. I had CanPass and was checking in with that on the phone seemed like everything was good until they asked about weapons, when I told them I had a long gun they told me to fly up to Kelowna (CYLW) and meet with a customs officer.

I had pre-filled out the ppwrk for it and everything went smooth especially after my passenger produced a dual citizenship passport.

Glidergeek wrote:Check on entry in at Pentiction, on my 2019 trip I thought it was a POE. pulled up to the fuel pit and was informed by another pilot that I might be wrong. Called customs and they concurred. I had CanPass and was checking in with that on the phone seemed like everything was good until they asked about weapons, when I told them I had a long gun they told me to fly up to Kelowna (CYLW) and meet with a customs officer.

I had pre-filled out the ppwrk for it and everything went smooth especially after my passenger produced a dual citizenship passport.

Thanks. As near as I can tell, it is an AOE. I assume that is the same thing as POE? This is the link I used to check…. https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/do-rb/offic ... 7-eng.html

Plus, I’m pretty sure this is where Cory Wolf cleared customs on his way through a couple of years ago (at least that’s where I got the idea to use Penticton). Appreciate you reaching out!

From the CFS:

CUST AOE/30 (120 with staged off-loading)
CANPASS 1-888-226-7277 Permit
holders H24 Non-permit holders
1630-0030Z‡ Mon-Fri

I cleared Customs there on the way back from HSF 2019 with no problems.

cwoolley wrote:

Glidergeek wrote:Check on entry in at Pentiction, on my 2019 trip I thought it was a POE. pulled up to the fuel pit and was informed by another pilot that I might be wrong. Called customs and they concurred. I had CanPass and was checking in with that on the phone seemed like everything was good until they asked about weapons, when I told them I had a long gun they told me to fly up to Kelowna (CYLW) and meet with a customs officer.

I had pre-filled out the ppwrk for it and everything went smooth especially after my passenger produced a dual citizenship passport.

Thanks. As near as I can tell, it is an AOE. I assume that is the same thing as POE? This is the link I used to check…. https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/do-rb/offic ... 7-eng.html

Plus, I’m pretty sure this is where Cory Wolf cleared customs on his way through a couple of years ago (at least that’s where I got the idea to use Penticton). Appreciate you reaching out!

Russ' words are worth heeding. I have checked in at Penticton no fewer than a couple dozen times, and probably suggested it to Russ in '19. Unfortunately like Russ, I discovered that in '19 it was in fact not an AOE, POE, or legitimate place to stop as am American citizen if you hadn't already cleared customs. Like Russ, I motored on and checked in at Kelowna, long guns, pistols and all. This stuff is easy peasy if you do it right. It'll land you in a pissin match with a badge if you take the hard headed approach. Discalimer; I'm an uneducated ag pilot who might could fly an airplane, and has flown his sorry ass from as far south as you can get (while still in the US), to as far north as you can get (in the same) more times than should be legal. I haven't cartwheeled one in a few dozen thousand hours, nor have had a pissin match with CBP or our Canadian counter part since I grew up a few decades ago, and I don't intend on giving up my northerly travels anytime soon...

Take this advice for what you paid for it, or shoot me a pm in a few days for the real time skinny on Penticton because it 'fits' my northerly travels best...

Or stick your head in the sand and pretend that if you don't do anything, nothing bad will happen.

Take care, Rob.

Rob wrote:… long guns, pistols and all.

Pistols? How did you manage that?

Rob wrote: Or stick your head in the sand and pretend that if you don't do anything, nothing bad will happen.

Take care, Rob.

Definitely don’t want to stick my head in the sand. I will PM you as we get a bit closer. Thanks for the input!