I'm pretty sure what my choice is, but I was wondering about any thoughts...

With the new wiz-bang magic new panel I'm putting in my Wagon, the Co-Pilot panel is absolutely blank. My Dad (80) likes to tag along from time to time and I thought I'd toss in an instrument for him to fly by.

I've installed (and flown behind) several G5s. They work great, but I've always been unimpressed. We're installing twin AV's now in a customers panel now, but I've not flown behind one. I know they're a bit temperamental in some cases, but they sure do look nice.

As far as Im concerned, the only reason to toss a G5 in there is because it plays so nice with the other Garmin kids, but my minds not made up...

Curious as to folks thoughts.... (keep in mind this is superfluous co-pilot panel only. The pilot will have all the nice nice fancy fancies.)

The AV30 will play nice with the Garmin navigation unit, it can display a lateral feed from the Garmin. I feed navigation data from a GNC250 to two installed AV30's for lateral guidance.

Mapleflt wrote:...will play nice with the Garmin...

Agreed, but it's just a simple RS232 sending MapMX data. Most stuff will read that...

Neither, put an iPad over there.

EDIT: How did I miss that this was for the copilot side? Not sure what I'd do in that case but if the rest of the panel is garmin, I'd probably stick with garmin. Nevermind my thoughts below.. I'll leave them here in case anyone cares about my AV30 vs G5 opinion in a more general situation.

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I've flown behind both, but more behind AV30 in single and dual installations. I think it's the budget-oriented choice between the two, but that's not a bad thing depending what people are looking for. You can throw one in with only power/ground hookups, no panel modifications, and get a flush mounted electronic AI with a backup battery and all sensors built in. That's impressive to me. Historically they definitely have more glitches than G5's. They also take up less panel space, require less install, but the GUI doesn't look as professional as the G5 in my opinion.

I decided the AV30 was right for my maule where I really only wanted an oh shit attitude indication in an otherwise VFR panel. Also the round look satisfied my need for symmetry although I don't love the GUI aesthetics. I didn't add OAT, RS232, or any of that stuff. Just power/ground/pitot/static. The lack of being able to display certified vertical guidance would keep me from using them in an IFR panel most likely.

The perfect thing would be GI275 form factor (round, flush) with G5 capability/price. GI275's are a different league of both capability (wow) and price (wow) so thank you for not comparing them to these two units.

If it’s a right side instrument in a very single pilot wagon, I’d just mount up a iPad and when he’s in the plane use the AHRS screen for him

When flying single pilot a iPad is going to be much more useful compared to a dedicated “copilot” PFD

185er wrote:Neither, put an iPad over there.

Man you guys are funny... giving answers to questions that weren't asked. LOL. I already have an iPad thanks... (and a 660 and a 760) ... but have no idea why that would be better for a copilot to fly.

As I said, I'm pretty sure what I'm installing, but In the spirit of sparking some discussion, I was curious as to what folks thought about the G5 vs the AV30.

I have a completely blank copilot panel and an 80 year old Dad who likes to tag along. He loves to fly, but its getting harder for him to look over to the pilot side to see the AI etc. A G5 or AV front and center would sure go a long way to making a passenger feel like they are participating.

Bigrenna wrote:

185er wrote:Neither, put an iPad over there.

Man you guys are funny... giving answers to questions that weren't asked. LOL. I already have an iPad thanks... (and a 660 and a 760) ... but have no idea why that would be better for a copilot to fly.

As I said, I'm pretty sure what I'm installing, but In the spirit of sparking some discussion, I was curious as to what folks thought about the G5 vs the AV30.

I have a completely blank copilot panel and an 80 year old Dad who likes to tag along. He loves to fly, but its getting harder for him to look over to the pilot side to see the AI etc. A G5 or AV front and center would sure go a long way to making a passenger feel like they are participating.

Off your options I’d go AV, just looks better on the panel and seems to be more than a very basic backup which is what the G5s seem to me to be

That said, setting your existing iPad to that big AHRS view and mounting it infront of him might be better, especially for 80yr old eyes, 3” instrument vs +15” iPad screen

Bigrenna wrote:

185er wrote:Neither, put an iPad over there.

Man you guys are funny... giving answers to questions that weren't asked. LOL. I already have an iPad thanks... (and a 660 and a 760) ... but have no idea why that would be better for a copilot to fly.

As I said, I'm pretty sure what I'm installing, but In the spirit of sparking some discussion, I was curious as to what folks thought about the G5 vs the AV30.

I have a completely blank copilot panel and an 80 year old Dad who likes to tag along. He loves to fly, but its getting harder for him to look over to the pilot side to see the AI etc. A G5 or AV front and center would sure go a long way to making a passenger feel like they are participating.

It’s not an answer, it’s an opinion, worth about as much as you paid for it.

Just put a 275 on the right hand side...

I have an AV-30 in my own airplane, and have flown behind a G5.

I’d put the functionality at about even. (They’re both quite small to present so much information)

The tipping point for me is round vs square; in my 60 year old airplane, with it’s nicely arranged panel.

And you lured me out of lurking, too!

aqua wrote:And you lured me out of lurking, too!

LOL

Im still waiting for you to fly over for a visit! Im so freaking close...

How are you going to post a thread like this and not include a pic of your current panel greg? That's punishable

asa wrote:...That's punishable

Patience grasshopper... patience.

I have a G5 and it has never given me a single problem. And I installed it back before they had the STC.

I have several clients that have both the G5 and the AV30. No issues at all with the G5. Several of the AV30 guys have had issues. They like it but all have expressed that they would not feel comfortable in IMC with it. I would have no ill feelings IMC with the G5.

Besides all that. I would buy a non-certified G5. Cheaper than a AV and rock solid. But, what is on the left side? Sure would be nice to have a spare sitting there on the right side panel incase a guy needed it.

I like my AV-30s, removed vac system and gained 7 lbs useful load.

I have two AV-30 C. I was an early adopter. The attitude and other functionality has been superb from day one. Directional gyro function, not so much. But it sounds like you're interested in an attitude gyro and maybe Altitude and Airspeed. Mine works great on that, and no way I'd pay the significant extra $$ for a G-5 that does the same thing.

On the DG function, my airplane has an O-360 Lycoming, which are well known to shake. When I installed the AV-30 in DG mode, I did the vibration test, and it failed. As a result, the DG precesses. uAvionix now has an external magnetometer, which should solve that issue, though it's only approved for EX installations to date. My DG version does have the internal magnetometer, but it's just not enough to deal with the vibration.

I have talked to several folks with the AV-30s installed in planes with six cylinder engines, where the DG function seems to work fine, with the internal magnetometer.

All in all, though, as a primary or secondary attitude gyro, I'd install the AV-30, connect it to pitot and static, set it up so you have attitude/Airspeed/altitude and enjoy.

MTV

Following..

I'm leaning toward two AV-30's in my '55 wagon, the price is right and install looks relatively simple.

Once upon a time I thought UAvionix, was really cool. I bought a tail beacon. I was looking at av30’s for a panel upgrade. Then I got a certified letter from the FAA. It was 6 months of wasted time and money, along with massive frustration. The tail beacon was a POS. The customer service was at best, poor.
I wish I had gone a different route for adsb, and with the customer service, I’ll avoid their products.

G5 is my choice, unless gi275 is an option.

StillLearning wrote:...I thought UAvionix, was really cool...

I get it, and agree in the context of the beacons. They are pretty much garbage... a toy. I've installed several on customer birds (against my advice) and have seen similar issues. I will say it is a handy thing though as every tool has a use... I've ferried a couple of birds for new owners now that didnt have ADSB. A quick $2k and a 30 min install solves the issue and gets the ferry done and salvages a flying season. That said, look in any avionics shop and you can see a pile of discarded tailbeacons (not a lot of resale value)

I also agree that the GI271 is king for roundies, with the G500Txi an even better choice... With their robust ethernet architecture they really are a great choice.

The G5 was definitely an after thought for Garmin racing to catch up with Dynon. They loose big in the industrial design department... Like the staff was out that week and the loading dock guys completed the design. Anyone who knows Garmin knows that they are most definitely working behind the scenes to get a better replacement... The G6x or whatever they will call it... Same computers, a tiny bit more functionality,touch screen, but round with more of the GUI from the G3x. Like those that bought a GDL 39, or GLD 84, investing in G5's now is a ticket to the forgotten past.

Where uAvioncs shines is that the AV30 "looks" really nice... it is their strong point.

I'm after a super clean airplane... no hokey flush-mout iPads or airGizmo portables. Just clean and simple.

For the niche I'm filling, the AV is a nice fit... and again, it really doesn't have to do much except sit there and look pretty. It'll let my dad yank and bank, mostly live out the window, but glance inside and get some important data.

FWIW: the big issue uAvioncs struggled with was procession on the DG. They cant quite pinpoint the cause, but chalk a lot of it up to installation issues. Whether it's know-it-all owners making mistakes, or aberrant RF interference from other stuff installed incorrectly, no one can say... However... uAvionics is on the cusp of a certified magnetometer which will put an end to it. Also, (big news) is that they plan to release the ability for the DG to act as a legal HSI, with the certified version to follow Q3-ish. This is big news because (IF they can get it all straight)

So would I install two as a "trusted" AI an DG? meh... But would I install one for my pop? yup.