Zzz wrote:
I have heard of protocol/decorum in Alaska where if there are campers/hunters at a remote strip, you move on to the next one. First come first serve. Maybe that's a luxury of Alaska and the plentiful backcountry there.

Not totally salient to where this conversation has gone, but that is the general ethic I try to follow during hunting season in Alaska, though maybe a bit less if just camping. That said, there are exceptions, as as with the main point of this whole discussion, a little bit of being polite and conscientiousness can go a long ways. Last fall I was flying a friend in for a weekend caribou hunt. We flew over our intended strip and it was empty, but we had a bit of light and I wanted to see if I could find a friend hunting a nearby area who he invited us to drop in. When we came back to our original destination 20 minutes later there was a Cub on the strip. We decided to land to talk it over with them, but with the full intention of leaving to find another option. It turned out to be someone I know and he didn’t mind us being there at all, but even still we made it clear that we would defer to them in every way when both parties started hunting the next morning. It worked out beautifully- we sat back a little while in camp the next morning and let them choose which area they were going to focus on, and in the end both parties were successful. Regardless, though, we were committed to just being good neighbors and deferring to those there first, even if that meant going to much less desirable areas.

Going elsewhere if there is a single plane on a strip might not be realistic in some places, but the simple ethic of being considerate of others can go a long ways regardless of where one finds themselves.

low rider wrote:...pounding your chest saying I'll operate how I want, where I want, and when I want, I think the options for you to do that are going to come to an end fairly soon.

Yep, but unfortunately, it won't end just for them... When the end comes, it will be for ALL of us pilots...

I hope someday to be able to come to Idaho and Alaska to fly the back country. But it will be a while before my Bearhawk Patrol is completed, and I get familiar enough with it to be comfortable flying the back country. Meanwhile, I would really appreciate it if those of you who gets there ahead of me "play nice" so that I'll still have the opportunity to go to some of those cool strips when it's my turn. And when I do get to come, I'll do my best to be considerate of others sharing the area, so that you'll be able to come back again as well...

(And for the record, I think that is pretty much what Dave was suggesting with his original post.)

Nobody doing touch and goes and peak bagging up here except me [emoji41]

Pyramid??

aktahoe1 wrote:Nobody doing touch and goes and peak bagging up here except me [emoji41]

IMG_7320.JPG

Good Hang Gliding around that area, kick ass thermals at times.

My 2 cents worth....

I don't like the fact that most non-pilots and ALL government entities view flying a General Aviation aircraft as a privilege, not a right. But, like they said in that old Navy Seals movie, you don't have to like it, you just have to do it.

Play nice or lose your privileges. (just like my Mother taught me)

aktahoe1 wrote:Nobody doing touch and goes and peak bagging up here except me [emoji41]

IMG_7320.JPG

You just wanted to show off those sweet new 35"s haha!

Thanks Kevin , Zane ,MTV for your love and support of everything aviation. Motoadve your films are a delight. When I read these forums I'm impressed with all the knowledge and different views. Good etiquette is is something i try for and sometimes fail at. A few things talked about like loud party all night ,parking to close ect ect could always improve. After reading OP closely those things very well could have been nerves , lack of confidence or training. As a thought we could try and explain good scenarios to Rangers and others with no knowledge . We should throw our support behind all aviation groups fighting for our rights. My rights are God given not government given. If I want to land at mile hi and have a problem I will not start a go fund me page asking for help. I seemed to have drifted off track. If we perceive wrong doing it might be best to address it then and not stomp on my toes later. I've been called out before and had to repent. Thanks all you other guys whose names. I forget

Quickdraw1 wrote:how I spend my time legally is none of you god damn business. Nor will you dictate to me what I will do king George!

The thing is, that laws can and do change. And if we don't comport ourselves in a manner compatible with the letter and the spirit of the law then it will be amended. There is approximately a 0% chance that amendment will be in favor of more access. So that's something I keep in mind when, as I am right now, I fly in the wilderness areas. I want my kids and grandkids to have the opportunity to experience the joy of flying into some of these really special places to hike and camp. If I turn my trips into scorecards of the strips I've bagged then the odds of that are reduced. For me, that's plenty of motivation to be respectful of other users even if the law doesn't say I'm required to.

I fly my airplane like it’s a dirt bike. I also enjoy landing at different spots just to land there. I also enjoy a hike every now and then.

One thing I have relearned from this thread is that people are different.

Also, people don’t seem to like or want to tolerate people who are different than themselves.

I’ve actually met a few jerks in the backcountry who seem to think their window of fun and behavior is the one true and correct window of fun and behavior.

I think seeking balance and respect for all things is pretty cool.

I want to balance my own desires with the desires of others and respect for the wild.

Airplanes are cool. Most people are cool. Sadly, there are exceptions.

Fly safe, have fun, be courteous, preserve liberty! All these things can be had, at the same time.


~Cory Robin
http://coryrobin.com

People are nuts and it won't change, especially if your one of Those from Frisco with a paddle.
I had a landing strip at my engineering co. for many years where I made new tail rotor Brg designs etc.
One day after landing a guy showed up all fired up.
He had a lake home a mile away. Not remote, there are hundreds of lake homes on this chain.
He asked What's this noise over head, We don't want to hear planes under a thousand feet !
I couldn't get rid of him, but after explaining accepted rules and standards he left.
This was a Skyhawk XP on a reduced power decent, not the 88" seaplane prop on my Wagon.

You land on public land and have to babysit fools ?I'm here for a joy ride ? What are you here for ? To Annoy people ? I'm a scout for a disabled UFO that needs to land in 15 minutes from uranus-U8us.
They are cannibals and you best be in your little floaties and out of here.Void of your permit to speak to me,
it might reduce pleasantries of seasoning or normal prep,Like expiring the food before consumption.
Hello ?? can't take a joke ? I don't drink

winger wrote:I'm here for a joy ride ? What are you here for ? To Annoy people ?
I'm a scout for a disabled UFO that needs to land in 15 minutes from uranus-U8us.
They are cannibals and you best be on your little floaties and out of here.
Void of your permit to speak to me, it might reduce pleasantries of seasoning or normal prep,
Like expiring the food before consumption.

Does anyone have the secret decoder ring to make sense of this post? I don't think it's a "rant", but I'm not sure what it is... Maybe too much tequila last night?

I wondered about that one myself.
First thing i thought of was to check the posting time, thinking perhaps it was inspired by a little too much whiskey.

I don't know but I kinda get it. I mean it's along the same vein as the turbo-encabulator only a whole lot shorter. I'm hoping for a more in-depth explanation.

You hit the nail on the head Sierra Victor .
As you said , most times these days when you knock out some bigmouth , foul mouthed , rude punkassed chump its time to cover your N number and get outta Dodge .
The most shocking ( for me at least ) is that others that may have been just as pissed will rat you off to the Man . “They” abhor “violence” when they have never experienced
for real violence .
Lawyers fees , court costs and fines along with the jail time waiting for release on own recog or bail really is worth it SOME TIMES , but as you inferred , it is a different time and I too am glad that I won’t be around much longer to experience the culmination of the Age of the Wimp .

Rant off.
Guilfoyle OUT

umwminer wrote:You hit the nail on the head Sierra Victor .
As you said , most times these days when you knock out some bigmouth , foul mouthed , rude punkassed chump its time to cover your N number and get outta Dodge .
The most shocking ( for me at least ) is that others that may have been just as pissed will rat you off to the Man . “They” abhor “violence” when they have never experienced
for real violence .
Lawyers fees , court costs and fines along with the jail time waiting for release on own recog or bail really is worth it SOME TIMES , but as you inferred , it is a different time and I too am glad that I won’t be around much longer to experience the culmination of the Age of the Wimp .

Rant off.
Guilfoyle OUT

Can't wait to see what your third post will be...

I abhor violence. I have killed good soldiers who were just doing their job, same as me. It is not fun, exhilarating, fulfilling, or a blessing. I abhor the people who put them in that undemocratic position. I had choices. They did not.

Wait! We're in America. We have choices. "Give it some time."

Hammer wrote:

umwminer wrote:…...Rant off. Guilfoyle OUT

Can't wait to see what your third post will be...

I don't mind waiting.

I beg to differ!! Rescues Killed a Great Friend of mine and Lost a great airplane trying to go rescue these adventure seekers who just happened to get stranded, and because they were TRUE MOUNTAIN CLIMBERS !!?? They did not take their Sat phone with them!! After the Canadian Military Rescue and American Coast Guard and the Canadian Park Wardens, And all who volunteered to find and rescue the 2 Climbers, I bet it was close to at least 1/2 million dollars spent!! Canadian Caribou With full crew of PJ's from Vancouver, C130 and 2 Helicopters from Anchorage, and 1 Coast Guard Helicopter from Sitka, one helicopter from Haines Junction!
I was the one who had to tell Kurts 11 year old Daughter he was not coming off the MTN!!

Guess I should have used the quote!! Answer to a post on page 2 or 3 that said that rescues do not cost!!

Well, I thought you’d all appreciate a mid-summer update:

Every time I’ve been in the backcountry this spring / summer, almost exclusively in wilderness areas, I have gotten the equivalent of the 5 supercub airshow. And not just during the 180 or Supercub fly-in – I didn’t even go out those weeks. It's always just people out joyriding their airplanes. I get it. It’s fun. But it's not right.

To anyone that says these airstrips are not getting over-used, I just scratch my head… we must not be having the same experience.

I saw this in the Idaho Aviation newletter this month, and it just strikes me as laughable. Like, I know you want to shoot the messenger here, but it’s not just me…

The article goes basically, yada yada, we’re getting access to some new airstrips… and then this: “So here is the rub. We are gaining the privilege of these two airstrips because they are access points to the public lands we all own. We are not getting these strips to roll wheels and leave. We are being allowed the privilege to use them with a social contract that they will be used to improve access to public lands. While adding these airstrips to our logbook is probably a worthy goal, it is not an end in itself, and it is certainly not the primary end that motivated land managers to consider opening them. No land use manager looked at these spots and said, “I bet pilots would like to do some touch-and-gos here.” Nor did they say, “What a great location to convert 100LL into noise.”

Anybody who truly knows the backstory to the creation of the Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness knows that the wilderness would have never been created without allowing continued access to the existing airstrips. The backstory to the creation of the Frank, is also the creation story for the IAA. IAA was created to preserve our access to the Wilderness airstrips. Without the airstrips, the interior of the wilderness would have been rarely visited. Frank Church himself said as much and had no problem leaving airstrips open for that precise reason. If one looks at the enabling language and supporting correspondence between people like Frank Church and the late Cecil Andrus, it was clear that the airstrips were identified as necessary access points.

Nowhere in the record, however, do any leaders, sponsors, or advocates state that pilots need access to challenging places to land or remote airstrips to test their skills and derring-do. We have been granted access to backcountry airstrips to access the surrounding public land. That is the WHY we have the privilege. If the only landings at these airstrips are pilots who just turn around and take off again, we are not showing land managers that they made the right decision. Pilot abuse of our access privilege is a legitimate threat to both gaining new airstrip access points AND keeping the ones we have. Please consider this when you use any of our backcountry airstrips. If you are only landing and turning around and taking off, you are making it harder for us to convince land managers that we need additional airstrips to provide access. If your low pass with a flight of four results in more complaints than compliments, we will gain no further access. Also, consider being a good advocate: Instead of complaining to land managers about them wanting to kick us off the airstrips now open to access the Wilderness, consider thanking the agencies and personnel involved for maintaining our access.