Scolopax wrote:

Sierra Victor wrote:People are rude. It’s a societal thing. Back when u could punch someone in the nose for poor behavior without fear of going to prison, people seemed just a little more considerate of each other.
Nowadays there are zero consequences for being a jerk and everyone acts like they’re the most important person on earth.
I don’t want to live forever anymore....too much bs.

Condemnation of your peers while kissing up to figures of authority was also a sound basis for punching someone in the nose before we became a nation under an overbearing legal system. The "my shit doesn't stink" busy body attitude is every bit as pervasive in our culture and even more annoying than rudeness for some of us.

Sierra Victor wrote:

Scolopax wrote:

Sierra Victor wrote:People are rude. It’s a societal thing. Back when u could punch someone in the nose for poor behavior without fear of going to prison, people seemed just a little more considerate of each other.
Nowadays there are zero consequences for being a jerk and everyone acts like they’re the most important person on earth.
I don’t want to live forever anymore....too much bs.

Condemnation of your peers while kissing up to figures of authority was also a sound basis for punching someone in the nose before we became a nation under an overbearing legal system. The "my shit doesn't stink" busy body attitude is every bit as pervasive in our culture and even more annoying than rudeness for some of us.

Was this aimed at me?
I don’t see where I was kissing up to anyone.

whee wrote:.... As I previously stated, I agree with Dave‘s point. There is an issue here and it needs be addressed. What I don’t agree with is him telling people their opinions are wrong because they don’t align with his opinion or interpretation. .....

DaveID wrote:That these ideas are new here is deeply saddening to me.

Scolopax wrote:

DaveID wrote:That these ideas are new here is deeply saddening to me.

As if this community has never discussed or promoted common sense courtesy and sensitivity in operations

The pity party approach and condemnation of peers is a big part of why your post has rubbed some of us the wrong way, completely derailing the conversation and preventing effective delivery of your intended message.

I fully agree with your message, but am annoyed with your condescending tact.

pburns wrote:

Tongue-in-cheek, my good friend. We must be sensitive to it to ensure maximum fun

Thanks Zzz,

Until I saw your post my tongue almost slipped out of my cheek.

Idahomike wrote:I live right by these strips. Fly/pack/hunt/float them about 7-8 months of the year. Fly/Hiked out of Lower Loon last week. I know most of the the Part 135 pilots out of Cascade and Mccall so I tend to hear all the stories. I also have a good buddy that works with the forest officials to keep these strips open in Montana.

Out here, most of the time, the place is pretty empty. You'll get the floaters getting dropped into Indian Creek and the usual cadre of breakfasters into Sulphur Creek (love it) but generally, the vast majority of the daily flying is the Part 135 guys dropping mail/supplies to the ranches and the occasional and obvious training flights being conducted by the local mountain flying seminar folks. All cool.

This will be interrupted with the very occasional group of buddies in 5 airplanes strip bagging. They are usually all gone in a day or so no need to get too worried about that. While its not the intent of the strips, I don't think its too excessive at this time.

Then there is the Super Cub and 180/185 fly ins. Again, they are gone in a week so no big deal. Frankly, none of us fly much during this time as its just too damn busy in the canyons with folks that may or may not know what they are doing. Frankly, I like that its all concentrated in one week. Everybody gets their fun, the local businesses have a great week and the pilots get to go home with their log books filled.

The one thing that needs to be understood is that this is a wilderness area. Its just different than other flying venues. Frankly, no motorized vehicles or anything motorized is supposed to be there. It is a huge privilege that we are allowed to fly over it under the usual wilderness altitude restrictions let alone LAND THERE and use it. The poster from New York shared that none of their wilderness areas allowed landing. There isn't much wilderness that does. Idaho is a VERY special exception..... Because of the great and rich tradition of flying in the Frank Church Wilderness before it was the Frank Church Wilderness and because of some great lobbying, we get the privilege of using it with our airplanes. Pretty good deal. I'll bend over backwards to keep that happening.

But, it can change by fiat. Good stewardship and cooperation among all the users (including the govt) is absolutely required.

Finally, take care of your neighbors out there. I've met some of the finest folk out on the strips...... and I've hauled in more than a couple replacement tailwheels, inner tubes or put up the occasional stranded pilot when things have gone south. Its simply to your advantage to be nice as you might need that rafter's sat phone or that backpacker's extra freeze dried meal one day when the plane won't start.

Carry on.

Idahomike wrote:I live right by these strips. Fly/pack/hunt/float them about 7-8 months of the year. Fly/Hiked out of Lower Loon last week. I know most of the the Part 135 pilots out of Cascade and Mccall so I tend to hear all the stories. I also have a good buddy that works with the forest officials to keep these strips open in Montana.

Out here, most of the time, the place is pretty empty. You'll get the floaters getting dropped into Indian Creek and the usual cadre of breakfasters into Sulphur Creek (love it) but generally, the vast majority of the daily flying is the Part 135 guys dropping mail/supplies to the ranches and the occasional and obvious training flights being conducted by the local mountain flying seminar folks. All cool.

This will be interrupted with the very occasional group of buddies in 5 airplanes strip bagging. They are usually all gone in a day or so no need to get too worried about that. While its not the intent of the strips, I don't think its too excessive at this time.

Then there is the Super Cub and 180/185 fly ins. Again, they are gone in a week so no big deal. Frankly, none of us fly much during this time as its just too damn busy in the canyons with folks that may or may not know what they are doing. Frankly, I like that its all concentrated in one week. Everybody gets their fun, the local businesses have a great week and the pilots get to go home with their log books filled.

The one thing that needs to be understood is that this is a wilderness area. Its just different than other flying venues. Frankly, no motorized vehicles or anything motorized is supposed to be there. It is a huge privilege that we are allowed to fly over it under the usual wilderness altitude restrictions let alone LAND THERE and use it. The poster from New York shared that none of their wilderness areas allowed landing. There isn't much wilderness that does. Idaho is a VERY special exception..... Because of the great and rich tradition of flying in the Frank Church Wilderness before it was the Frank Church Wilderness and because of some great lobbying, we get the privilege of using it with our airplanes. Pretty good deal. I'll bend over backwards to keep that happening.

But, it can change by fiat. Good stewardship and cooperation among all the users (including the govt) is absolutely required.

Finally, take care of your neighbors out there. I've met some of the finest folk out on the strips...... and I've hauled in more than a couple replacement tailwheels, inner tubes or put up the occasional stranded pilot when things have gone south. Its simply to your advantage to be nice as you might need that rafter's sat phone or that backpacker's extra freeze dried meal one day when the plane won't start.

Carry on.

Zzz wrote:Perhaps a study in communication is warranted here. IdahoMike's post, as well-delivered and as well-received as it was, didn't really differ in message too much from OP, aside from a little insight about the reality of the tourist season. The big difference was the tone. No one enjoys being reprimanded or spoken to in a condescending manner, even if it's deserved.

More flies with honey.

Scolopax wrote:

Sierra Victor wrote:

Scolopax wrote:

Sierra Victor wrote:People are rude. It’s a societal thing. Back when u could punch someone in the nose for poor behavior without fear of going to prison, people seemed just a little more considerate of each other.
Nowadays there are zero consequences for being a jerk and everyone acts like they’re the most important person on earth.
I don’t want to live forever anymore....too much bs.

Condemnation of your peers while kissing up to figures of authority was also a sound basis for punching someone in the nose before we became a nation under an overbearing legal system. The "my shit doesn't stink" busy body attitude is every bit as pervasive in our culture and even more annoying than rudeness for some of us.

Was this aimed at me?
I don’t see where I was kissing up to anyone.

Not at all. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was just following on to your point about society, the times, rudeness and identifying another annoying attitude that is very apparent these days. The initial post reeks of said attitude.