Canadian Owners and Pilots Association - COPA
February 14 at 1:05pm


As planning for the summer flying season gets underway, we have been getting lots of questions from our southern neighbours about the implications for Basic Med in Canada, particularly for those transiting to or from Alaska. Transport Canada maintains that due to not being an ICAO-compliant medical, Basic Med cannot be used to fly in to or through Canadian airspace. cc. AOPA

This sucks big time as the flip side is I can no longer fly in the USA with my Canadian class 4 medical which is also non-icao. Was not a problem before but it is now, tit for tat sort of thing. Simple cure is to have Canada and USA sign a reciprocal contract. What could be easier???

Same goes for LS aircraft from what I understand. Canada won't let LS in, USA won't let homeowner maintained in. I wish they would figure there shit out and just let us fly. Is there really a big safety difference between a homebuilt and homeowner maintained??

I was told that the subject was brought up during an update meeting with TC and Copa and the head of TC aviation medicals went nuts. To the point that the minister of transport later apologized for his mans behavior. I was not there so this is only second hand info given to me by someone who was there. I am not sure if logic and reason will get things changed when dealing with those kind of attitudes. However if anyone has a picture of that person standing amongst a flock of sheep wearing gum boots and Velcro gloves we might be able to move forward with some common sense.

175 magnum wrote:I was told that the subject was brought up during an update meeting with TC and Copa and the head of TC aviation medicals went nuts. To the point that the minister of transport later apologized for his mans behavior. I was not there so this is only second hand info given to me by someone who was there. I am not sure if logic and reason will get things changed when dealing with those kind of attitudes. However if anyone has a picture of that person standing amongst a flock of sheep wearing gum boots and Velcro gloves we might be able to move forward with some common sense.

What???? Common sense among gummit officials???? Never happen!!!!

Cary

175 magnum wrote:I was told that the subject was brought up during an update meeting with TC and Copa and the head of TC aviation medicals went nuts. To the point that the minister of transport later apologized for his mans behavior. I was not there so this is only second hand info given to me by someone who was there. I am not sure if logic and reason will get things changed when dealing with those kind of attitudes. However if anyone has a picture of that person standing amongst a flock of sheep wearing gum boots and Velcro gloves we might be able to move forward with some common sense.

I am disappointed reading COPAs stance on it too though. They don't seem to see any need for medical reform because we already have the rec license. Problem with the rec license is yoy can only have 1 passenger. I really do wish COPA would stand up and push for a change.

swixtt wrote:

175 magnum wrote:Canadian Owners and Pilots Association - COPA
February 14 at 1:05pm


As planning for the summer flying season gets underway, we have been getting lots of questions from our southern neighbours about the implications for Basic Med in Canada, particularly for those transiting to or from Alaska. Transport Canada maintains that due to not being an ICAO-compliant medical, Basic Med cannot be used to fly in to or through Canadian airspace. cc. AOPA

This sucks big time as the flip side is I can no longer fly in the USA with my Canadian class 4 medical which is also non-icao. Was not a problem before but it is now, tit for tat sort of thing. Simple cure is to have Canada and USA sign a reciprocal contract. What could be easier???

What kind of license do you have? You need a 1 or 3 for a PPL.

4 is for Rec license.

swixtt wrote:You've never been allowed in with a Rec and probably never will so I'm not sure why this is a problem now unless he is changing.
There is a reason rec isn't a preferred route to go. No night, no more than 1 passenger, no USA and no complex or ppc. In other words more than just medical.

Yes that's true, but with the new medical reform in the USA, you'd think they would get together and allow cross border flights. Anyone going with the new drivers license medical in the US can't fly into Canada anymore, even though they can carry more passengers and still fly at night. Same with their light sport category, they can't fly into Canada. And our home owner maintained can't fly there. It would he nice if they would. Lesser medical requirements doesn't make us less safe IMHO.

The doctor who heads up Canada's aviation medical standards has the reputation you describe. He's aging. Not sure if there is a protege waiting in the cue.

That said, there is an international standard. It's ICAO. If you can't, or won't meet that standard then the US and Canada have separately developed standards that allow you to keep flying in your home country. I figure that when I can no longer hold a medical that supports my PPL, I'm probably not going to be too interested in flying very far from home, so giving up flying in the US may not be a problem. Actually, I have a US license, and can probably get a basic medical to support it if I want.

Maybe Canada will one day develop a basic medical, and maybe the US will develop a recreational license category like Canada. After that there could be reciprocity. Asking both countries to reduce their standards to the lowest common denominator, and agree to reciprocity all at once is a big ask.

We've made progress on both sides of the border. Not exactly in step, but progress. Be patient.

Just as a bit of information the USA also has a recreational pilot permit.

Subpart D—Recreational Pilots


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§61.96 Applicability and eligibility requirements: General.

(a) This subpart prescribes the requirement for the issuance of recreational pilot certificates and ratings, the conditions under which those certificates and ratings are necessary, and the general operating rules for persons who hold those certificates and ratings.

(b) To be eligible for a recreational pilot certificate, a person who applies for that certificate must:

(1) Be at least 17 years of age;

(2) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet one of these requirements due to medical reasons, then the Administrator may place such operating limitations on that applicant's pilot certificate as are necessary for the safe operation of the aircraft;

(3) Receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor who—

(i) Conducted the training or reviewed the applicant's home study on the aeronautical knowledge areas listed in §61.97(b) of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought; and

(ii) Certified that the applicant is prepared for the required knowledge test.

(4) Pass the required knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas listed in §61.97(b) of this part;

(5) Receive flight training and a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor who—

(i) Conducted the training on the areas of operation listed in §61.98(b) of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought; and

(ii) Certified that the applicant is prepared for the required practical test.

(6) Meet the aeronautical experience requirements of §61.99 of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought before applying for the practical test;

(7) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation listed in §61.98(b) that apply to the aircraft category and class rating;

(8) Comply with the sections of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating; and

(9) Hold either a student pilot certificate or sport pilot certificate.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61-103, 62 FR 40902, July 30, 1997; Amdt. 61-124, 74 FR 42558, Aug. 21, 2009]


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§61.97 Aeronautical knowledge.

(a) General. A person who applies for a recreational pilot certificate must receive and log ground training from an authorized instructor or complete a home-study course on the aeronautical knowledge areas of paragraph (b) of this section that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.

(b) Aeronautical knowledge areas. (1) Applicable Federal Aviation Regulations of this chapter that relate to recreational pilot privileges, limitations, and flight operations;

(2) Accident reporting requirements of the National Transportation Safety Board;

(3) Use of the applicable portions of the “Aeronautical Information Manual” and FAA advisory circulars;

(4) Use of aeronautical charts for VFR navigation using pilotage with the aid of a magnetic compass;

(5) Recognition of critical weather situations from the ground and in flight, windshear avoidance, and the procurement and use of aeronautical weather reports and forecasts;

(6) Safe and efficient operation of aircraft, including collision avoidance, and recognition and avoidance of wake turbulence;

(7) Effects of density altitude on takeoff and climb performance;

(8) Weight and balance computations;

(9) Principles of aerodynamics, powerplants, and aircraft systems;

(10) Stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and spin recovery techniques, if applying for an airplane single-engine rating;

(11) Aeronautical decision making and judgment; and

(12) Preflight action that includes—

(i) How to obtain information on runway lengths at airports of intended use, data on takeoff and landing distances, weather reports and forecasts, and fuel requirements; and

(ii) How to plan for alternatives if the planned flight cannot be completed or delays are encountered.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61-103, 62 FR 40902, July 30, 1997]


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§61.98 Flight proficiency.

(a) General. A person who applies for a recreational pilot certificate must receive and log ground and flight training from an authorized instructor on the areas of operation of this section that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.

(b) Areas of operation. (1) For a single-engine airplane rating: (i) Preflight preparation;

(ii) Preflight procedures;

(iii) Airport operations;

(iv) Takeoffs, landings, and go-arounds;

(v) Performance maneuvers;

(vi) Ground reference maneuvers;

(vii) Navigation;

(viii) Slow flight and stalls;

(ix) Emergency operations; and

(x) Postflight procedures.

(2) For a helicopter rating: (i) Preflight preparation;

(ii) Preflight procedures;

(iii) Airport and heliport operations;

(iv) Hovering maneuvers;

(v) Takeoffs, landings, and go-arounds;

(vi) Performance maneuvers;

(vii) Ground reference maneuvers;

(viii) Navigation;

(ix) Emergency operations; and

(x) Postflight procedures.

(3) For a gyroplane rating: (i) Preflight preparation;

(ii) Preflight procedures;

(iii) Airport operations;

(iv) Takeoffs, landings, and go-arounds;

(v) Performance maneuvers;

(vi) Ground reference maneuvers;

(vii) Navigation;

(viii) Flight at slow airspeeds;

(ix) Emergency operations; and

(x) Postflight procedures.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61-103, 62 FR 40902, July 30, 1997]


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§61.99 Aeronautical experience.

A person who applies for a recreational pilot certificate must receive and log at least 30 hours of flight time that includes at least—

(a) 15 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in §61.98 of this part that consists of at least:

(1) Except as provided in §61.100 of this part, 2 hours of flight training en route to an airport that is located more than 25 nautical miles from the airport where the applicant normally trains, which includes at least three takeoffs and three landings at the airport located more than 25 nautical miles from the airport where the applicant normally trains; and

(2) Three hours of flight training with an authorized instructor in the aircraft for the rating sought in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test.

(b) 3 hours of solo flying in the aircraft for the rating sought, on the areas of operation listed in §61.98 of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997, as amended by Amdt. 61-110, 69 FR 44868, July 27, 2004; Amdt. 61-124A, 74 FR 53645, Oct. 20, 2009]


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A1Skinner wrote:...Yes that's true, but with the new medical reform in the USA, you'd think they would get together and allow cross border flights. Anyone going with the new drivers license medical in the US can't fly into Canada anymore, even though they can carry more passengers and still fly at night.....

The US's new BasicMe is not a "drivers license medical", although I wish it was.
Drivers license medical is sport pilot, to fly LSA's.
Basic Med will still require a doctor's exam and a sign-off, arguably to the same standards as a class 3 medical.
Just every four years, instead of two, and less involvement by the FAA.

I saw some statistics several months ago about how many held each type of certificate in the US. Without taking the time to look it up again, my recollection is that out of several hundred thousand certificated pilots, there were only a handful, something less than 50, who opted for the recreational certificate. It's just too restrictive.

For myself, I just scheduled my flight physical today to take in April. The only reason I couldn't pass the Class II last year was my cataracts were making my vision too fuzzy. But I just had my first cataract surgery a week ago today, and the difference is phenomenal--I can read the small print on the bumper stickers on the cars ahead of me! The next one is on March 6th, and I'm expecting similar results. So I'll try for the Class II again.

Cary

Here in Canada, the Recreational Pilot Permit is a perfect fit for me. I don't need to fly at night, don't want to fly IFR and my 'plane only has two seats anyway.

I'm allowed to fly most any common, piston engine single with up to four seats (just one passenger though). I can get (and have) a float endorsement, almost a necessity in Canada.

This late in life I have no desire (or time remaining) to make a career out of flying.

The majority of private pilots spend most of their time flying alone or with a single passenger. Most fly during day-VFR conditions. Most have two- or four-seat airplanes. Most have no intention of becoming commercial pilots. And, I dare say, most fly within their home country.

The additional training for a PPL can be enjoyable, but a lot of pilots are throwing their money away.

Cary wrote:...Without taking the time to look it up again, my recollection is that out of several hundred thousand certificated pilots, there were only a handful, something less than 50, who opted for the recreational certificate. It's just too restrictive. ...

I know a guy who got a recreational ticket, 10 or more years ago-- long before LSA/sport pilot was introduced.
He bought a J4 Cub and just planned on flying it around locally, and the recreational pilot privileges fit his needs like a glove.
Now that Sport Pilot is here however, recreational pilot makes no sense if you have an LSA-compliant airplane- even less privileges than SP, plus you still need a medical to boot.

Are you required to show your medical to Canadian authorities when entering?

You are supposed to carry the medical (and all the other paperwork) but I've never been asked to show it going into Canada. Coming back may be another story. Flew from Atlin to Juneau last summer and (new guy, formerly from S Texas, so maybe no surprise) wanted to see all my paperwork.

Clearing customs at KBLI yesterday (entering US), CBP carefully scrutinized my medical.

Karmutzen wrote:Clearing customs at KBLI yesterday (entering US), CBP carefully scrutinized my medical.

Thanks for saying this!!! I have been trying to tell this to several guys that are wanting to cross the border into Canada with only a SP and they seem to think they can do so legally. I will copy this and forward it to them.

I've only flown into Canada a handful of times, but have yet to even have anyone from customs even come out to meet me.
Just called Canpass from the ramp, got my check-in number, and went on my way.
Coming back into the US was different--
Never happened to me, but I've heard people say their airplanes were checked out with a Geiger counter.
Definitely my paperwork was closely scrutinized.
Don't know what US Customs could do to a returning sport pilot for violating Canadian rules, but I'm sure they'd figure out something.
At the least, they'd probably drop a dime on you so no more Canpass privileges.

Karmutzen wrote:
Clearing customs at KBLI yesterday (entering US), CBP carefully scrutinized my medical.

Ever since G.W. Bush created the Homeland Security monster they have taken it upon themselves to perform checks on GA pilots that should be in the realm of the FAA, but since they are the biggest gorilla in the forest no one can tell them "no".

Flying into Canada I have never been asked for airplane or my docs. Going into US you are grilled and given the Geiger counter. Rubber gloves will be next.

The reality is I will never do something that will preclude me crossing a border in the future.

And if I was so inclined to do something bad I would not show up at a airport of entry after I announced when and where I was coming.