A1Skinner wrote:Excellent points Gump. Oil is cheap considering.

Big John wrote:Ran Aeroshell for years with oil analysis every other change, switched to XC 20-50 and my oil analysis improved immediately and stayed better, That was enough for me. Had an O540 turbo at that time.

This interests me. In what ways did the analysis improve? The oil was cleaner? Less metal?

The XC showed less wear from various metals than the Aeroshell even though both we're showing normal wear and no issues with the engine but the XC did improve the samples. Ran using the XC for a couple more years and it continued showing lower than the Aeroshell had.

Thats great big John. I may have to switch over and try some xc.

Since I live on the wet side of Washington, I went with Exxon Elite for its anti-corrosion properties. I also add a pint of Camguard to each change.

So far so good. Good oil reports, etc.

One thing I had to get used to is that the oil gets dark quite quickly but am guessing that is part of the formulation.

TD

Use elite too after switching from Aero Shell don't use as much oil now as I did with shell it's definitely thinner like a elite can't say it's better than anything else but I like it and it's more expensive so I suppose it makes me feel better
Like the fact that I can pretty much make it between oil changes without having to add oil

The good news with Exxon Elite is that they ship free anywhere in the country (including Alaska) FREE during the various air shows, like Sun N Fun, OSH, etc. And you don't have to show up at the airshow to get the deal....just call them during the show.

FYI, rhe guy who developed Cam Guard was an Exxon engineer before he went out on his own. Exxon opted not to incorporate the CamGuard formulation in its oils due to cost....but they do have a very good package of additives for corrosion control.

I've been using Exxon Elite for fifteen years give or take, with Cam Guard added.

But, FYI, WE operated O 320 and O 360 Lycoming engines regularly to 2500 hours, and the only oil used (after engine breakin) was Aeroshell 15 W 50. And we never had any maintenance issues in an engine between overhauls. These engines were all operating 500 + hours a year! and some 1000 hours a year.

The best thing you can do for your engine is RUN IT. If you do that, any aviation oil will work fine.

MTV

Once again…. MTV is spot on!

I run Exxon Elite also.

G44

In my continental O-300, I run aeroshell 80. Never had any issues. After talking to the continental tech rep, he advised me to stick with it and avoid the multi viscosity oils in the O-300. You guys have me interested in the camgaurd, Ive never really talked to anyone that uses it.

I also run a higher weight sign viscosity oil, just because that's what my IA advised (onefifty if you're watching...). W100 I think, whatever's in his unmarked 44 gallon drum.

Our IO-540 gets run at least once a week, or perhaps once a fortnight every other month.

The colder winter temperatures have certainly changed the pressure at start-up, takes a lot longer for the oil to come up to pressure (~10s to get out of the red now). I too have been wondering about multi-viscosity....

This CamGuard sounds like a good thing, but I wonder if it's necessary given we fly so often.

Battson wrote:The colder winter temperatures have certainly changed the pressure at start-up, takes a lot longer for the oil to come up to pressure (~10s to get out of the red now). I too have been wondering about multi-viscosity....

This CamGuard sounds like a good thing, but I wonder if it's necessary given we fly so often.

The vast majority of the wear comes during that period when the oil isn't yet flowing. I've never read anything scientific suggesting that single weight is a good idea, much less single weight in a cold environments. While you're watching that oil pressure come up, it's metal on metal. Everything I've ever seen in support of the single weights is along the lines of "well, I've been using it and I can't say it's ever bitten me".

Now that said, the engine you're running does say straight weight is approved (as is multi, of course), lycoming recommends straight 20 or 30 for the temps you're talking about. If you're really running 100 weight, that's pretty far from the manufacturers recommendation.

CamGuard is not necessary if you're flying that much.

Jeredp wrote:In my continental O-300, I run aeroshell 80. Never had any issues. After talking to the continental tech rep, he advised me to stick with it and avoid the multi viscosity oils in the O-300. You guys have me interested in the camgaurd, Ive never really talked to anyone that uses it.

Continental is requiring camguard in their Mattituck overhauls now in order to have a valid warranty. So they must be seeing something they like, but I haven't seen the science on that one.

FWIW Mike Busch says straight weight Aeroshell 100W is the premier oil and Phillips 20W50 XC for cold environments where thorough pre-heats are not possible. He goes on to say that Aeroshell 15W50 is the worst oil out there for our engines, I'm not saying he is the authority either, but his "All about oil" webinar goes into specific detail about it on EAA website.

I have always run Phillips 20W50 XC and recently switched to Aeroshell 100W for the high summertime temps. Both work well for me.

There were some studies years ago that one of the IA/A&P's I know touts, which showed that Phillips 20W50 XC with Camguard added was the best combo for Continental engines. YMMV

I have also found that 0-470's often get lifter clatter at start-up. I add a quart of MMO and it goes away, good stuff IMO. Camguard is also good but my plane doesn't sit so I go without usually.

Battson wrote:I also run a higher weight sign viscosity oil, just because that's what my IA advised (onefifty if you're watching...). W100 I think, whatever's in his unmarked 44 gallon drum.

Our IO-540 gets run at least once a week, or perhaps once a fortnight every other month.

The colder winter temperatures have certainly changed the pressure at start-up, takes a lot longer for the oil to come up to pressure (~10s to get out of the red now). I too have been wondering about multi-viscosity....

This CamGuard sounds like a good thing, but I wonder if it's necessary given we fly so often.

Battson,

If you are indeed running straight W100 (which designates 50 weight oil) and you are starting on frosty mornings as depicted in your recent photos, I'd strongly recommend switching to either straight W 80 (40 wt) or go to a multi grade oil of some flavor.

If your afternoon temps are relatively warm, I'd definitely switch to multi viscosity oil. ANY straight weight oil in this cold morning/warm afternoon regime is going to be lacking in one regime or the other.

And, I call BS on Busch if he really did suggest Aeroshell 15W50 is bad oil. I've run that stuff literally thousands of hours, in a variety of climates, with NO problems.

I've heard some folks complain that it's so "runny" that their engines puke lots of oil with it......and, maybe that last overhaul wasn't quite up to snuff? I ran the stuff winter, summer, spring and fall in northern Alaska, and never saw any down side to it.

I use Exxon Elite in my own engines simply because I get free shipping, and I like the corrosion protection package it provides. I also usually run Cam Guard as well. That said, in my current engine I'm running Phillips XC, ONLY because the engine obviously didn't break in properly before I bought it....grrr. If the engine breaks in, I'll switch to Exxon Elite.

Just to stir the pot, consider this:

ONE of the desired characteristics of a "break in" oil is to help the engine wear in. That involves ensuring the cylinders and piston rings seat well, which is accomplished by wear. Other parts of a newly overhauled engine also need to wear in. This is the reason the "standard" break in oil has traditionally been uncompounded pure mineral oil. Why? Because it doesn't contain additives that help to isolate wear by products and hold them in suspension, rather than being deposited in the engine. The compounded oils remove these wear products and hold them in suspension till the oil is changed. In effect, this break in oil doesn't do as good a job of lubricating an engine.

You really don't want an oil with great lubricating properties in an engine that's being broken in.....a vital part of the break in process is encouraging (some healthy) wear to internal parts.

Now, consider that Phillips XC 20W50 oil is approved for engine break in......

There's a reason proponents of the Phillips oil also strongly recommend use of Cam Guard: that oil lacks the corrosion protection agents present in Aero She'll or Exxon oils. I still use Cam Guard because it provides additional corrosion protection in addition to that provided by Aero Shell or Exxon Elite.

Draw your own conclusions.

MTV

[quote="mtvNow, consider that Phillips XC 20W50 oil is approved for engine break in......

MTV[/quote]


There is also a Philips " M 20W50" Mineral Oil. as well as 25W60 for the Heat! .

When I was operating in temps above 100 degrees every day I would use W120 Aeroshell.

I don't really disagree with your logic MTV but I don't necessarily think that just because Phillips says it can be used for break-in is an acknowledgement that it inferior in lubricating qualities. And I really agree that flying often is the key and just about any aviation oil will do just fine. Definitely agree the difference is in the additives and you can pay more for oil w/additives or pay more for Camguard and probably arrive at about the same place.

Blackstone Labs basically says they all do a fine job lubricating/preventing wear:

Blackstone Labs maintains an extensive database of wear metals produced by almost all types of piston aircraft engines. They performed an analysis that compared the wear metals generated by 571 Lycoming IO-360 engines using four types of oil: Aeroshell W100, Aeroshell 15W-50, Exxon Elite 20W-50, and Phillips 20W-50. They found no significant difference in wear metals between the four types of oil.

On Aeroshell 15W50 - Here is what Mike Busch says:

My own personal experience agrees with this: I have investigated many cases of premature cam and lifter distress (generally caused by corrosion during periods of disuse) and without exception they all involved engines operating on Aeroshell 15W-50 multigrade.

source: http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/savvy_aviator_52_thinking_about_oil_changes_196730-1.html

Skalywag wrote:FWIW Mike Busch says straight weight Aeroshell 100W is the premier oil and Phillips 20W50 XC for cold environments where thorough pre-heats are not possible.

Was that this one: http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182909- ... directed=1

If so, his comment: "Single-grade oil is especially good at protecting engines against internal corrosion, because it is very thick at ordinary room temperature and sticks to engine parts without stripping off as readily as multi-grade oils." has since been disproven. The ability to prevent corrosion is essentially the same multi versus single (IIRC, there was a single that was much worse than the multi's). The absolute key was camguard. Didn't matter if it was camguard in a single or a multi, it was the big difference maker for corrosion. Which brings us back to the major difference between them: getting oil into the engine at startup.

Philips XC 20/50 and Camguard

dawgdriver wrote:Philips XC 20/50 and Camguard

That's what we use and what I've been using in my super cub.

If your operating procedures require manufacturer TBO for your Lycoming (part 135, US Government Contracts, Insurance, etc.), then this SI (Service Instruction) allows +200 hours to any engine flown more than 40 hours per month. Nice little give away from Lycoming;

Hot oil is the best oil!

http://www.lycoming.com/Portals/0/techpublications/serviceinstructions/SI1009AW_Recommended_TBO_Periods.pdf

mtv wrote:Battson,

If you are indeed running straight W100 (which designates 50 weight oil) and you are starting on frosty mornings as depicted in your recent photos, I'd strongly recommend switching to either straight W 80 (40 wt) or go to a multi grade oil of some flavor.

If your afternoon temps are relatively warm, I'd definitely switch to multi viscosity oil. ANY straight weight oil in this cold morning/warm afternoon regime is going to be lacking in one regime or the other.
...

MTV

Good call - I will drain all the oil out and keep the W100+ until summer, and replace it with the Phillips 20W50. I can do this on Saturday, when I change my tires to the 26"ers
Then it's off to the beach (landings)!
I am looking forward to the weekend already!

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/about-aircraft-oils.php

I found this link. Interesting!