http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/teen-pilot-around-world-flight-found-dead-samoa-n163266

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/teen-pilot-attempts-break-record-30-day-flight-around-world-n147456

Conjure memories of Jessica Dubroff. I'll say no more. WTF?

Ok, I will say more because it angers me. This "youngest around the world" stuff is retarded. Why can't people enjoy the magic of flying without creating a spectacle of themselves? Did no one stop them to say "you know, major ocean crossings in a single engine piston powered aircraft aren't the greatest idea." It's great fodder for a news media and nation that are hungry for more fear-fueled GA horror stories.

Yup.... Money always makes up for skill and experience.

Gump

"He’s at the age where there’s no fear of the unknown."

Yikes... what a statement to have in bold type on the original story.

Sorry, but I have to disagree a bit on this one. Round the world records aren't my thing, especially the focus on the "youngest" category, but I'm a libertarian when it comes to flying--if I want the right to go out and chase my flying dreams, I have a hard time criticizing others for going out and chasing theirs.

Why can't people enjoy the magic of flying without creating a spectacle of themselves?

Careful what you wish for. This same argument could be made against all of us who post flying videos.

Did no one stop them to say "you know, major ocean crossings in a single engine piston powered aircraft aren't the greatest idea."

That argument has been around, and perfectly valid, since before 1927. I'm glad Lindbergh didn't listen to it and stay home.

I'm not comparing this kid (and his dad, who also presumably perished in this attempt) to Lindbergh, but Lindy would have been just as dead if his engine quit over the Atlantic. I'm glad we live in a time and place where we can still make the choice to push the edges of the envelope and fly like we want, even if that sometimes carries with it extreme consequences that others might not understand or accept for themselves.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in our reactions to this I hear echoes of the same types of thinking that drives us crazy when the same is applied to backcountry flying.

I knew Babar... We spent time talking about this adventure. He's one of the reasons I bought a Bonanza... He was not about records, or being "retarded"... He was passionate about his family and supporting his son's passion for flying. I think he felt this trip was a way to connect with his son in a way not many are able to. His son (Haris) wanted to leave a mark and raised a lot of money to build schools in their native Pakistan - This trip was the lever to raise that money. Be careful denigrating someones actions when they are trying to do good for others.

They were men of grace and will be missed...

A very sad situation. I am not a big fan of the "youngest to do this", "or oldest to do that" thing, and I bet that was more a news media label than anything these folks did.

"Earthrounders" is a pretty big deal to some, and they have a web presence just as we do here. The young man and his father were both certificated pilots. Jessica Dubroff was a kid who wasn't even really the "pilot". Just a little girl in the middle of a hokey media event.

Fate stepped in while flying out of American Samoa. Could have just as easy been while flying to Catalina for a burger, or into a grass strip in Idaho. We take some calculated risk on every flight. Sometimes it just doesn't come out even.

dav3469 wrote:Fate stepped in while flying out of American Samoa. Could have just as easy been while flying to Catalina for a burger, or into a grass strip in Idaho. We take some calculated risk on every flight. Sometimes it just doesn't come out even.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... l-for-help

interview with the couple that ran into problems while sailing across the Pacific and had to call for rescue. They got slammed by the media who knew very little about what actually happened. Sounds similar.

Well they're dead now, family in tears. Praise our freedoms. I'd rather have my family members with me for as long as possible than see them labeled posthumous heroes. My dad probably felt the same way when I was younger and crazier and it caused us a lot of tension.

"Spectacles": We're all narcissists, no getting past that. I've often questioned whether my enjoyment would be the same if I had no footage to pore over and post when I return home. My favorite flights these days are solo with no camera. It's oddly liberating, ironically. What I'm speaking to is the record breaking, the competitive race for attention. The big records in single engine GA are old news. We're still worshipping Jimmy Doolittle and dudes from the 30's and 40's. I couldn't tell you one name of these kids lately who've flown around the world, and flying an airplane around the world for charity is a joke. It's expensive and digs deep into any proceeds that may come of it. Trips or feats like this aren't selfless. Don't kid yourself.

So many who loved flying so much they went out and died for it when a little restraint and prudence could have afforded them a long and fulfilling life. Doesn't make sense to me, but less does the older I get.

Soon you'll be reading about my trip to Alaska in a Top Cub in the kind of detail only an attention seeker could conjure, so I can relate. But make no mistake, that trip was all for me and I was competing only with Canadians for poutine. I hope this 17 year old kid was in it for himself too.

Well said, Dav. We all know what it's like to fly over inhospitable terrain with few options if things go sideways. Unfortunately they did here, but that's a chance most of us have chosen to take at one time or another.

Sorry for your loss J, and condolences to all others affected.

There's a big difference between flying the Idaho (or Ohio, or ??) backcountry and flying around the world in a single engine plane.

The difference? If you're flying across the Pacific in a single engine airplane, your airplane has without doubt, been tanked for the journey. And, you are going to be flying WELL over gross weight, at least during the first several hours of each leg. Note this accident occurred very close to takeoff........

There IS a significant difference.

On the other hand, humans do crazy things every day. I would argue that EVERY base jumper fits in that category. But then I'm sure every base jumper would consider me to be a total wuss......and true enough, I reckon.

In short, we seem to seek out ways to kill ourselves, but these are no longer unique.

When I was in Cold Bay, AK (look it up) I landed one day, and there sat a Cessna Ag Truck spray plane. I thought "What the?". I approached the pilot and asked him where he was off to.....his response: Australia, Mate. I asked how he'd get there. Response: Cold Bay, Adak, Midway, a couple of atolls in the Pacific, Papau, New Guinea, Australia.......

This was before (way before) GPS or aviation LORAN. 1200 mile overwater legs, looking for some tiny atoll out there in the middle of nowhere.....with no alternates.

And he wasn't trying for any kind of record.....

I Don't look for logic in these deals.

MTV

There by the grace of God go I/We/Us. I don’t know if age or record breaking had as much of a driving force as the impending Father and son adventure and bond that they had planned, I don’t know, I did not know them. I’m raising my grandson, before he was four, he could tell you what most of the flight instruments were and what they were for, I’m thrilled with the prospect of teaching him how to fly and looking forward to our future adventures, around the world is not on the list, but way cool in my book. Is there a risk, Yup, is it worth it, I think so, we live a dream others will never achieve and only dare to dream of, one that is impossible without risk.
RIP. Babar and Haris Suleman

"Praise our freedoms."

Yep. If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right.

RanchPilot wrote:"Praise our freedoms."

Yep. If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right.

some thing about that make me grin

I actually don't think Zane and I are that far apart on this, and I'm certain this is a discussion better had around a campfire somewhere over a beer or twelve.

It's always sad when things don't turn out like we want them to, but I respect these two for their willingness to put it on the line despite the obvious risks. RIP, and last call from me on this one.

jaudette wrote:I knew Babar... We spent time talking about this adventure. He's one of the reasons I bought a Bonanza... He was not about records, or being "retarded"... He was passionate about his family and supporting his son's passion for flying. I think he felt this trip was a way to connect with his son in a way not many are able to. His son (Haris) wanted to leave a mark and raised a lot of money to build schools in their native Pakistan - This trip was the lever to raise that money. Be careful denigrating someones actions when they are trying to do good for others.

They were men of grace and will be missed...

I'm sorry to hear this, Jaudette.

RIP aviator's and condolences.

Nothing rips my heart out like father/sons/daughters getting killed flying together in the enjoyment of recreational flying. A round-the-world flight is recreational, no different than anything else we do with an airplane. But it does take planning and has more risks - overgross takeoff when full of fuel in the cabin, uncertain weather, no farmland of Kansas under you if fan quits. The father could be aware of those risks, the son certainly would not, so it is a heavy burden on a father to expose his son or daughter to a risk they are too young to understand. Spare me the "record for youngest pilot in command". Any suggestion that a 17 year old pilot is in any way "pilot in command" making command decisions when another older and more experienced pilot is beside him to pick him up if he falls is ludicrous. Media fodder.

We can do crazy things because we have the freedom to. Asking a 17 year old to join you and expecting that he has the same mature judgement to make his own decision is contrary to every social convention we have on responsibility and maturity, like drinking age, voting age, enlistment.

RanchPilot wrote:"Praise our freedoms."

Yep. If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right.

Just because we "can" do a thing does not mean we "should" do thing.
As a veteran, I chose to help protect those freedoms.
But, freedom does not negate wisdom or guidance.
Would anyone support their daughters dream to become the youngest porn star? Or their sons dream to become a shark repellant tester?
No. They should exercise their parental imperative to avert potentially fatal endeavorers. Not encourage them. At 17 he could not possibly have the expertise or technical knowledge to make an educated assessment of the dangers involved. Nor could he have developed the flight skills required to handle any possible problems. Would anyone here be as supportive if father and son drove their car off a cliff street racing? Just because they both enjoyed street racing and they were doing it together?
An around the world flight is nothing like the recreational flights we all take. Not by a long shot. As B/C pilots we all take risks. But they pale in comparison to flying a single engine plane around the world. Who here has flown a single engine plane over an ocean for a thousand plus miles? Who here has flown in, out and over hostile countries?
I'm truly sorry for the family and friends.
But stupid is as stupid does.
Freedom does not justify foolhardiness.

Aviation is a risky hobby. Can the risks be mitigated? Sure. But the fact is, it's potentially fatal on each and every flight. Everyone weighs their own risks. If they wanted to fly around the world, God bless them. I'm not going to throw rocks at them for that. If they fail, well then, damn. But I hope we can let everyone pursue aviation their way. As long as they pose no harm to anyone but themselves. Keep aviation potentially fatal, I say. Keep it free.

I think we need to be careful how we display our emotions on this event.

I did not know Babar, but many people that I highly respect in the aviation community knew him well. Babar was an ambassador for GA, and those who had the privilege to meet him or be influenced by him through aviation, are crushed by his loss.

It appears that Babar operated on a financial level that most cannot comprehend, therefore I don't doubt that this flight has and will benefit charity.

Babar and his son were as prepared as I believe anyone could be to fly a single engine airplane around the globe. Specific training was conducted at high gross weights to prepare for future fuel loads of the trip, as well as over water ditching etc.

Risk: Another factor that many of us don't understand or take into account is culture. Until you have walked in someone's shoes, there is no way to fully comprehend what is "normal" and "acceptable" to them.

RIP