Against my better judgment, I'm seriously considering bushwheels on my C185. I have McCauley wheels and brakes, presently with 8.50x6.

In order to mount Bushwheels, it looks like I'd have to get new brakes and wheels. But what about the tailwheel? I currently have a Scott 3400 with whatever the standard tire is. Is it a bad idea to mount, say, 29" Bushwheels on the mains while keeping the original tailwheel? I've heard very little good about the Baby Bushwheel and would like to avoid the expense, shimmy, etc. OTOH, at some point the nose gets too high. . . .

Relatedly, I've been told more than once that I should get rid of the McCauley wheels anyway. That being the case, it really isn't fair to add the cost of wheels and brakes when considering the cost of the upgrade, right?

I would skip the baby bushwheel unless you're really operating on rough, soft surfaces.

These are two separate STCs and not necessary hand in hand.

As Zane suggested, mount the 29s and fly them for a while. See if your mission is suffering from the dragging TW. FWIW... The 185 has a much heavier tail than the 170B and even the 180, so the floatation is more needed in that bird.... Lots of guys experience shimmy with the wide fork. Mostly, this is because they land way to fast... but shimmy can be an issue. If you go that route, dont do the baby bushwheel. Order the wide fork, and run the glider tire. Same same, but will last WAY longer.

Yes, ditch the old brakes for 199-62. With the heavier 185, you might strongly consider the 199-62a. (6 bolt vs/ the 3)

Greg

There are places where a larger tailwheel is beneficial, especially very soft sandy bars. If you arent' planning that, stick with the stock tailwheel. In any case, I'd run the bushwheels a while first, and that'll help you decide whether you need the baby bushwheel. Frankly, most of the ones I've been around shimmy frequently, and I nearly always wheel land as slow as practical. Short story: I hate the baby bushwheels.

As to your main wheels, if they're in good condition, why replace them? Are they three bolt or six bolt? If three bolt, just torque them periodically and keep an eye on them. If they're badly corroded or cracked, then definitely replace them. Otherwise, I'd stick with the stock wheels.

Can't recall but aren't the McCauley main wheels the 3-piece ones?
I've heard some bad reports on those.

Esp if you're thinking about buying new wheels & brakes,
you might consider going to 10" wheels & running 850x10's or 29x10's.
I think Desser offers a 31x10 tire also.
Not sure about approval on that last one.
Initial outlay including wheels might be more, but future tire replacement would be much less $ than BW's.
ABI offers 10" wheels, as does Grove, plus there are the old Gar Aero 6"-to-10" adapters.

hotrod180 wrote:Can't recall but aren't the McCauley main wheels the 3-piece ones?
I've heard some bad reports on those.

Esp if you're thinking about buying new wheels & brakes,
you might consider going to 10" wheels & running 850x10's or 29x10's.
I think Desser offers a 31x10 tire also.
Not sure about approval on that last one.
Initial outlay including wheels might be more, but future tire replacement would be much less $ than BW's.
ABI offers 10" wheels, as does Grove, plus there are the old Gar Aero 6"-to-10" adapters.

The Alaska Gear Co. (formerly Alaskan Bushwheels) offers a 10 x 10 wheel, which uses the standard 6 inch wheel brake disc. The STC for those wheels (which comes with the wheels) provides authorization to run 8.50 x 10 or 29 x 11 x 10 tires. It may also include 8.00 x 10, not sure. I run the 10 x 10 wheels on my tailwheel converted 175, with 8.50 x 10 tires, and that is a very nice combination. At around 12 psi, they are fairly flexible, but of course, nothing like Bushwheels at 3 psi..... A cautionary note, however, the wheels themselves are kind of heavy, but they are tough enough to be run as bogie wheels on a main battle tank. Ak Gear came out with a replacement 10 inch wheel for Cubs, which is 10 x 8.50 (or is it 6.50?), which is much lighter. I keep hoping they'll redesign the 10 x 10 wheel to be lighter, it is waaaaaay strong, and could afford to use a few pounds.

I like the size of the 8.50 tire, and there is an 8.50 x 10 treadless tire which Desser (or whatever they're called these days) sometimes has in stock.

I'd go there again, largely because in winter, ALL my landings are on pavement, and Bushwheels are a bit too $$$ for my blood and program.

I run 29's on my 180 and a 10" tailwheel. There have been a few times where I think a wider tailwheel would be good thing. Like some of the runways and camping areas in Utah. Its never been a real problem, but sometimes that 10" tailwheel sinks in pretty bad.

Hey Stuart, have you considered 26" Goodyears? I don't believe you'd be happy with a baby bush wheel given what I know about your mission.

Bigrenna wrote:Order the wide fork, and run the glider tire. Same same, but will last WAY longer.

Yes, ditch the old brakes for 199-62. With the heavier 185, you might strongly consider the 199-62a. (6 bolt vs/ the 3)

Greg

Do this and don't look back. Don't think softer rubber, wider footprint, and increased rolling radius will help? Take off your headsets and taxi on gravel, do it again with something big and soft on the tail...

In fact as stout as our main gear tend to be, while aesthetically not great, I'd suggest your airplane would appreciate a BBW more than BW's on the main gear.

Shimmy? fix the cause... it ain't tire size, it's geometry or technique, a zillion trucks rolling on 37's down the highway with no shimmy aren't magic, your tailwheel shouldn't shimmy either. Yes, they ALL will with time, that's because with time, bearings will go bad, and gear will sag (geometry) That's your clue to do the periodic mx.


Take care, Rob

I'm on Rob's side here. Before I installed a BBW on the tail of my Murphy Rebel, rough surface landings made for lots of tin can sounding noise through the tail cone. The BBW reduced that noise considerably. I also installed a T3 and that really improved the overall noise and really smoothed out the rough terrain areas. Unfortunately, I think that is only an experimantal option.

Maybe I got lucky, but I have had zero shimmy issues (so far) with the BBW. A friend did have issues on his Scout though and removed it.

Probably wouldn’t want a BBW if running a lot of pavement ops. As for the 29” bushwheels, they’re in a league of their own for their safety/capability but are somehat illogical to a user that doesn’t need them (just an opinion). A new set of 199-62A and 29s will cost over $9000. As an alternative, there are a lot of satisfied people using the new(ish) Grove/Desser Seaplanes North STC for 10” wheels, 8” brakes, and tubeless Desser smoothies, either 8.50-10 or 29-10. I’ve ran this setup with both of these tires on my 185 and am completely satisfied with both, the 8.50-10 is probably the sweet spot for a Skywagon that doesn’t venture off airport but sees a lot of grass, dirt, etc..

Consider that the desser aero classic 8.50x10 smoothies are $750 (for both!) and the grove 10” wheel/brake kit is $4500, you could try that system for $5250. 35 lbs a side vs. well over 40 a side for the 199-62/BW combo. If you want larger, put the aero classic 29-10s on, you’ll still be lighter than the bw setup. The 31s will probably not be added to the STC as they’ve hoped, I guess the feds are just making it too hard on them (imagine that). In my experience running all 3 sizes of these aero classic smoothies (31s on my Bearhawk Patrol), they wear well when used on pavement. I’m a fan of this Grove/Desser setup, in my opinion, it’s worth a try for someone that is looking at bushwheels but might not really need them. If you need bushwheels, there is no substitute. My Patrol spends a lot of time on 35s because the Desser 31s just aren’t soft enough/large enough for some particular gravel bars.

Maybe consider trying this setup before buying the ABWs, you might find that you really like it. Financially, it pencils, if that matters. Currently, my 185 is sitting on Desser smooth 29s with an XP Mods/TLGW 10” tailwheel. For me, it’s absolutely perfect.

Is it a good time to plug our latest article?

7 Things To Consider When Upgrading To Big Tires

mtv wrote:........... Ak Gear came out with a replacement 10 inch wheel for Cubs, which is 10 x 8.50 (or is it 6.50?), which is much lighter. I keep hoping they'll redesign the 10 x 10 wheel to be lighter, it is waaaaaay strong, and could afford to use a few pounds. .....

I checked the AK Gear Co website--
unfortunately it appears that the 10x650 lightweight wheel are only approved for use with Bushwheel tires,
you still need the 10x10 wheels to run 850x10 or 29x10 tires:

"Wheel Assembly
The ABI-10650 & 10650 LW wheels are made from cast aluminum alloy and conform to FAA
TSO-C26d standards. The 10650 LW is a lighter weight version of the original 10650 wheel. The
wheels are a tubeless design and approved only for use with the Alaskan Bushwheel 351510.R1
Tire."

https://documents.alaskagearcompany.com ... 2-2021.pdf

Tailwheel tire choice is similar to the mains. Get the tire that fits the mission. A stock tire is fine for tar, grave, and packed runway/landing operations and preferred because it does not hurt you AOA on takeoff. If you are going to rough, soft, muddy, soft sand, or tundra a wider tailwheel is the answer. Note I said wider not taller. they do make vary tall wide tires that work well but they hurt you AOA on take off so wide bushwheel fork with a glider tire or baby bushwheel is preferred. If experimental you can run a 4.10/3.50-4 50 PSI tire on the bushwheel or Gar Arrow fork the sets 1/2 inch lower than a baby bushwheel.
DENNY

StuBob wrote:Against my better judgment, I'm seriously considering bushwheels on my C185. I have McCauley wheels and brakes, presently with 8.50x6.

In order to mount Bushwheels, it looks like I'd have to get new brakes and wheels. But what about the tailwheel? I currently have a Scott 3400 with whatever the standard tire is. Is it a bad idea to mount, say, 29" Bushwheels on the mains while keeping the original tailwheel? I've heard very little good about the Baby Bushwheel and would like to avoid the expense, shimmy, etc. OTOH, at some point the nose gets too high. . . .

Relatedly, I've been told more than once that I should get rid of the McCauley wheels anyway. That being the case, it really isn't fair to add the cost of wheels and brakes when considering the cost of the upgrade, right?

Attached are shots of the 280/250-4 tire as standard on the Scott 3400 w/8" fork (far right), 10x3.50-4 tire as used with the Scott 10" fork P/N 3423-03 (center), and the BBW (far left). Note that the 280/250 and 10x3.50 both fit the same stock wheel. Best advice (previously stated) is run what fits your mission. Tires are tools, some are special purpose, some are the adjustable wrench. I will never tell anyone what to run on their machine, I rather provide data to help make an educated decision. For me, the 10x3.50-4 is the sweet spot (180H with Kenmore upgross). I have the BBW off our Cub as it now stays on floats, however, I never felt the need to order up the TWFK to install on the 180. Yes, the BBW will smooth out the ride for the tail, however, I mitigate tail stress by keeping it off terra firma as long as possible and gently lowering it under control vice letting it drop out and slamming or worse yet, landing on it before the mains. My surfaces are mostly gravel and dirt as one can tell by the lack of paint on my fork. I have previously run 8.00x6, 8.50x10 w/GAR Aero Adapters, 26" GY's and presently 31" ABW's. The 10x3.50-4 has treated me well for over 35 years. The short answer is no, you do not have to upgrade your tailwheel going the ABW's, however, as others have noted, it will certainly roll easier with the BBW or 10".

TR

Not sure if he is still in business but I bought a tail wheel assembly with STC for my 185, N185BR. Worked great and allowed a little more visibility over the nose. I have since sold the aircraft (A HUGE MISTAKE ON MY PART) but it is still registered the the new owners.

In addition to limiting furrowing in mud, the slightly heavier assembly with long aft arm helps with forward CG.

Cruiser wrote: Not sure if he is still in business but I bought a tail wheel assembly with STC for my 185, N185BR. Worked great and allowed a little more visibility over the nose.....

Who and/or which tailwheel assembly STC are you talking about?

That would be tail wheel Tom Anderson xp mods 14 in tail wheel. I have that on my k model 180 for over 30 years and 4000 hrs. Great set up little bit of matinance and still has the same Goodyear tire. And I grease it a lot . My rule is if I walk behind airplane I grease it with 100% synthetic low temp grease. My cub the same never have tail wheel problems . Cub tire is 8in stock injected never goes flat lasts about 20 years or until it starts coming apart

Cub180 wrote: That would be tail wheel Tom Anderson xp mods 14 in tail wheel. .....

That takes big tailwheels to a whole nother level!
The baby bushwheel is comparable to a 400x4 tire, in fact that's what the "glider tire" alternative is,
but for those who don't know, the XP Mods 14" tailwheel assembly uses a 500x5 tire.
Seriously overkill for most of us, I suspect,
but if you need big this is the t/w for you.

https://tlgw.aero/product/14-tailwheel- ... 0-185-188/