RDUStinson wrote:

Bring Cash or Gold Bars

Checks or goofy trades don't impress them at the ranch. Cash talks.

once again bring CASH .

Interesting post. Most of the Stinson guys I know would be happy to share their Stinson love- for free. Must be different down there in Mexizona.

What I meant is if you have gas money to "donate" Bruce will fly you to the ends of the earth. If you want to take a Stinson with you -Buy one but he only responds to REAL money or Gold for sale. Altogether Bruce has 6 Stinson's ,4 Ballanca's ,3 experimental, 5 Cessna's --- he's 77 years young and owns everything plus the house and hangers on AZ50,property free and clear. One hell of a Great Guy to know -heart bigger than Texas for a broke down motorist or pilot.

Yup, you'll love the -3! Like has been said, the Franklin isn't the problem that most who have no experience with it, would like you to believe. That said, the one I'm rebuilding right now is getting an IO-390 and MT prop. THAT should be the one that will make the O-470 powered ones sit up and take notice!
They're a great plane, and easily maintained. Unfortunately, Univair is the main supplier of parts (my opinion here) so it's usually easier to build new, or find good used....they're out there!
Spars on a -3 are of 7075 aluminum, so take a good close look, to make sure they don't look like a "dalmation dog". If it was kept well, it'll be good. Also take a good look at the center attach section of the horizontal, especially if it's been on floats or had a bigger engine installed.
An old friend of mine always said that the Stinson was a the "true gentleman" of airplanes....it'll do what you ask and has no really bad habits!
John

hardtailjohn wrote: the one I'm rebuilding right now is getting an IO-390 and MT prop.

Cool project HTJ - is there an STC for that or is it on field approval? Should be a great performer.

The 220 valves do not belong in a 165 though. I'm pretty sure they're sodium filled, which means they cool through the stem as opposed to cooling through the seats in the (much) lower compression 165. The result is that the cool stem collects combustion deposits and sticks, leading to the potential for engine failure I mentioned above. I believe one of the other posters on this thread has first hand experience with this phenomenon. I'd suggest contacting a few reputable engine builders to confirm this.

Why would he have done a top end with 220 valves?

Come up to AZ50 for Stinson immersion

AZ50 looks like quite a drive. Do you have contact info for him?

acpilot wrote:

The 220 valves do not belong in a 165 though. I'm pretty sure they're sodium filled, which means they cool through the stem as opposed to cooling through the seats in the (much) lower compression 165. The result is that the cool stem collects combustion deposits and sticks, leading to the potential for engine failure I mentioned above. I believe one of the other posters on this thread has first hand experience with this phenomenon. I'd suggest contacting a few reputable engine builders to confirm this.

Why would he have done a top end with 220 valves?

Come up to AZ50 for Stinson immersion

AZ50 looks like quite a drive. Do you have contact info for him?

Whatever - If your really serious contact me at [email protected]

Thanks for the insight, guys. I'm prety much convinced a -3 is the way to go! From the looks of it, it's the best deal out there!

Bill, thanks for the input.

Stinsons are a great, undervalued airplane. I own one, but it was a wreck I've bought...see my thread on here. I've only flown them from the right seat, but I love them from the low tailwheel time standpoint. Can't wait to finish mine so I can fly it!

Vick,
Univair has an STC for an IO-360. There's only like 3 of them out there. From there, we're getting a field approval (at the suggestion of the pmi) to jump to an IO-390. The MT prop is on a field approval. It should be a screamer, as it's much lighter than an O-470 and puts out about the same hp. I'm looking forward to seeing this one fly!
John

hardtailjohn wrote:Vick,
Univair has an STC for an IO-360. There's only like 3 of them out there. From there, we're getting a field approval (at the suggestion of the pmi) to jump to an IO-390. The MT prop is on a field approval. It should be a screamer, as it's much lighter than an O-470 and puts out about the same hp. I'm looking forward to seeing this one fly!
John

Bruce Barton has 2ea 0-435 Lyc. about 200 hp. 150(2) & (1)165 Franklin and 1ea. 0-540 model-3 projects. Luther Tate sold a 0-470 -R version . There is even some Lyc. 0-320 Stinsons out there . Lots still have the old Franklin 150's. 0-360 is toooo pricey from Univar --- Try Stinson Club web site.
There's a 165 -2 hanger ed at Boulder that haven't flown in 10 years could be had for cash . Lots of possibilities . Danny has 2 more projects in Calif. There 1 more at Redding, CA. with out motor but good airframe . I got the Franklin 165 for Bruce for one of his. Carl Gerker --Former FAA Inspector has 2 -3's and there are another 2-3 available at WJF . Been there done that.

hardtailjohn wrote:Univair has an STC for an IO-360. There's only like 3 of them out there. From there, we're getting a field approval (at the suggestion of the pmi) to jump to an IO-390. The MT prop is on a field approval. It should be a screamer, as it's much lighter than an O-470 and puts out about the same hp. I'm looking forward to seeing this one fly!
John

Very cool, should be a screamer. Please let us know how it turns out.

182 STOL driver wrote:

hardtailjohn wrote:Vick,
Univair has an STC for an IO-360. There's only like 3 of them out there. From there, we're getting a field approval (at the suggestion of the pmi) to jump to an IO-390. The MT prop is on a field approval. It should be a screamer, as it's much lighter than an O-470 and puts out about the same hp. I'm looking forward to seeing this one fly!
John

Bruce Barton has 2ea 0-435 Lyc. about 200 hp. 150(2) & (1)165 Franklin and 1ea. 0-540 model-3 projects. Luther Tate sold a 0-470 -R version . There is even some Lyc. 0-320 Stinsons out there . Lots still have the old Franklin 150's. 0-360 is toooo pricey from Univar --- Try Stinson Club web site.
There's a 165 -2 hanger ed at Boulder that haven't flown in 10 years could be had for cash . Lots of possibilities . Danny has 2 more projects in Calif. There 1 more at Redding, CA. with out motor but good airframe . I got the Franklin 165 for Bruce for one of his. Carl Gerker --Former FAA Inspector has 2 -3's and there are another 2-3 available at WJF . Been there done that.

I'm plenty familliar with the Stinson Club. I've been doing a bit of Stinson work for a few years. Done a few O-470's, Franklins, etc..... I do what the customer wants to pay for. This guy bought the STC for the IO-360, and the PMI suggested to go to the IO-390....when he was doing the f/a for the MT prop. It'll be a nice, light bird that puts out more horses than the O-470 and is way lighter than all the other big engined conversions. Should be fun.
John

Hey,

I spoke with some people today about the -3 and they seemed to think the tail was a weak spot on the airplane. Is there a way to regularly inspect the "spar" in the tail, or do you just have to trust everything is in decent shape and corrosion free?

Were they talking about the actual horizontal stab or the tubing in the longerons? No stab issues that I've heard of but health of the tubing in the tail of a taildragger - where the water runs - is always worth examining.

Vick, they're probably talking about the rear spar in the horizontal stab. I've found quite a few that were cracked in the center, near the attach points...especially if the aircraft has a big engine or has been on floats. I've replaced a few of the spars. The only way to really inspect it is to pull the attach hardware and do some real careful looking at the forward surface of the spar, near the attach and out to the ends of the doublers.
John

hardtailjohn wrote:Vick, they're probably talking about the rear spar in the horizontal stab. I've found quite a few that were cracked in the center, near the attach points...especially if the aircraft has a big engine or has been on floats. I've replaced a few of the spars. The only way to really inspect it is to pull the attach hardware and do some real careful looking at the forward surface of the spar, near the attach and out to the ends of the doublers.
John

Interesting, good to know. The bolts for the AD back there strengthen the forward spar?

What I did when I built new spars, was lengthen the doublers, top and bottom, to pick up a bit more of the web further outboard from the attach points. We'll see what that does.
I tried a new spar from Univair and it wouldn't even fit. The radius was different and the way they did the lightening holes was all different. When I called them, they told me I had a "freak"...eventhough I supplied 3 other -3's right here that were all original and the same.....so, I built new spars. Not a biggie, and it actually gave me a little more control over QC. Overall, it wasn't a bad thing. We'll see if the new ones hold up a bit better. If I can get over there to the shop this weekend, I'll try to get some pics of the old stuff for ya, and some of the new. No guarantees...I've got a barn to finish and 2 Clydesdale mares staring at me, ready to "pop", so it's a long shot I'll be over there for a few days.
John

Off topic...is there an anfib option for 108's?

No amphibs for the certified Stinson. I think the Gross weight makes the decision that amphibs are not practical on this machine.

I have a -1 and I would do it again in a second.

The valve statement is VERY true and be cautious of the valves. I have only had one engine issue (which has been the ONLY issue I have had with the entire plane) aside from that I have not had any trouble with her. I would recommend a EGT/CHT and the Cleveland brakes, I dont have experience with the originals as my Stinson came with the Cleavlands, they stop really really well.

The Yahoo Stinson group is a VERY good resource for anything Stinson.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Stinson/

Thanks for the input, guys! I've made my post-prebuy price adjustment and hope he accepts. It needs a little work, but it's airworthy and in decent shape overall. Comps are a little on the low side, however.

Regarding the 220 valves in a 165:
John @ Lil' Red Aero didn't think is was a huge deal. As long as the airplane is flown and doesn't sit for long periods of time, the engine should keep turning. I guess this is true for any engine. That said, I think an O-470 may be in the cards somewhere down the road. I also need to research anfibs. I don't know much about floats other than I want them.