Backcountry Pilot • Buying a 108-3...maybe.

Buying a 108-3...maybe.

Technical and practical discussion about specific aircraft types such as Cessna 180, Maule M7, et al. Please read and search carefully before posting, as many popular topics have already been discussed.
Post a reply
62 posts • Page 3 of 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4
Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:22 am

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

Hey Ac,
Just a head up....if you want a stinson with a different motor, just buy it that way up front. To put an o-470 in the plane will run you close to $40K, Nearly 7-10k for stc and parts, probably 20-30K for a good motor/prop, and over 100 hours of install. You will never see a return on investment for this and will probably have doubled your investment on the plane. They can be purchased w/ a 0-470 already installed for 30-40k for the whole aircraft! I own a -3 w/ a franklin great plane, easy to fly....if fact I think I'm going to go fly it now!
electricsnail offline
User avatar
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:51 am
Location: Potsdam, NY
48' Stinson 108-3
top
Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:08 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

I'm thinking years and years down the road! I've looked at some 470 equipped planes and they're just a little too much plane for what I'm looking for right now. It's a fantastic plane for $35-$40K!

If I do take the 470 route, I'll probably just sell the 165 plane and buy a Super Stinson.
acpilot offline
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:37 pm
Location: Arizona
top
Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:29 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

electricsnail wrote:Hey Ac,
Just a head up....if you want a stinson with a different motor, just buy it that way up front. To put an o-470 in the plane will run you close to $40K, Nearly 7-10k for stc and parts, probably 20-30K for a good motor/prop, and over 100 hours of install. You will never see a return on investment for this and will probably have doubled your investment on the plane. They can be purchased w/ a 0-470 already installed for 30-40k for the whole aircraft! I own a -3 w/ a franklin great plane, easy to fly....if fact I think I'm going to go fly it now!


While this is solid financial advice I still feel there are times where it is better to build it how you want it vs buying it done.I've looked into stinsons quite a bit and in my case I would choose the bird with the best airframe over what power plant is hung on the nose.Now if i where to buy a Maule I'd pick one with the engine I prefered :wink:
Bob offline
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:33 am
Location: NJ/BG
top
Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:43 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

You may be interested in Larry Westins Stinson Site. It is so full of information and pictures/history you could read for days. It is updated practically every month. I really have become a fan of Stinsons, especially after reading and learning of the fact the factory was on the Wayne, Michigan airport not far from where I grew up( Now a GM plant).

I hope you guys can benefit from this site.
http://www.stinsonflyer.com/Site/Welcome.html
lownslow79 offline
User avatar
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:18 pm
Location: Las Vegas
FindMeSpot URL: www.share.garmin.com/brian79
Aircraft: 72' Cessna 150L
top
Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:06 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

I agree. That's a fantastic site!
acpilot offline
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:37 pm
Location: Arizona
top
Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:46 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

In my opinion, a Stinson 108 with the Cont. 0470 is not a whole lot better than the original 165 Franklin ! A close friend had one and he only gained about 4 to 5 MPH in cruise speed over what my 108-3 does. The biggest downfall was not enough fuel capacity even with the big 50 gallons available
with standard tanks. Remember that Cont. 0-470 will burn in cruise anywhere from 12 to 16 GPH depending on the load you are hauling ! My friend owned his for about six months and then got rid of it . He was very disappointed with it !!
jcrowles offline
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 7:46 pm
Location: Bemidji,Mn.
Where spring comes July3 and winter starts July5 th. Snow in May is normal.
top
Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:29 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

jcrowles wrote:In my opinion, a Stinson 108 with the Cont. 0470 is not a whole lot better than the original 165 Franklin ! A close friend had one and he only gained about 4 to 5 MPH in cruise speed over what my 108-3 does. The biggest downfall was not enough fuel capacity even with the big 50 gallons available
with standard tanks. Remember that Cont. 0-470 will burn in cruise anywhere from 12 to 16 GPH depending on the load you are hauling ! My friend owned his for about six months and then got rid of it . He was very disappointed with it !!


Yeah but what about takeoff and climb performance? You shouldn't be flying a Stinson for speed anyways.
robw56 offline
User avatar
Posts: 3263
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:30 pm
Location: Ward
Aircraft: 1957 C-180A
top
Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:28 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

jcrowles wrote:In my opinion, a Stinson 108 with the Cont. 0470 is not a whole lot better than the original 165 Franklin ! A close friend had one and he only gained about 4 to 5 MPH in cruise speed over what my 108-3 does. The biggest downfall was not enough fuel capacity even with the big 50 gallons available with standard tanks. Remember that Cont. 0-470 will burn in cruise anywhere from 12 to 16 GPH depending on the load you are hauling ! My friend owned his for about six months and then got rid of it . He was very disappointed with it !!


If he was disappointed with it then he didn't do his homework on what the strengths of the larger engine are, namely takeoff roll and climb performance. If you're a lowlander with plenty of runway available then it would be unnecessary but fly one (or a 220 for that matter) at high DA, in/around terrain, or off a short strip and the benefits would be clear. And it only burns 12-16 gph in cruise if you try to maintain a speed that consumes 12-16 gph. Pull it back to ~10gph and you get ~100kts, just like the 165 - funny how that works.
Vick offline
User avatar
Posts: 823
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:21 pm
Location: Grass Valley, CA
FindMeSpot URL: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/face ... WUk8CX06AP
Solum Volamus
top
Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:23 am

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

There is a Stinson with an O-360 on floats and with standard landing gear for sale on Barnstormers.
porterjet offline
User avatar
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:37 am
Location: San Luis Obispo
John
KSBP
top
Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:21 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

I am an newer owner with a modified -3 (230hp)and love my plane. I have also sat in and flown next to a -2 comparably set-up (220hp)for quite a bit. I love mine thus far...yes I think the -2 has better lines (the tail) and the -2 has a bit better performance (mine is 150pds heavier max gross but I also carry 10 extra gallons and have a full IFR panel and my engine weighs a bit more (I have the 0-470). Granted the tail is also a bit heavier and wont seemingly come up quite as quick (but we are talking a small difference). At sea level mine will come off in 250-300ft and climb like an SOB. Up here at 5300ft I can get off in about 7-800 feet and climb out about 1000-1200 FPM).

Crosswind-I have landed mine in a 19-20kt xwind (that is the actual component) and it was VERY stable and handled it just fine. This is about the limitation though ...especially when taxiing with the big tail. Although in any taildragger a 20kt xwind is about the top end (IMO) that you really want to play with unless its an emergency or you have an exceptional aircraft with exceptional skillz! 8)

In my limited experience with them either a -2 or -3 is a very stable platform but also has a "nimbleness" to them at the same time. I often say it cruises like a 206 but will yank and bank more like a supercub.

I know some of my performance stuff is skewed with the big motor...but if you're thinking that way MAN it is one hell of a bird. I
FLYNAKD offline
User avatar
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 2:34 pm
Location: Littleton
Aircraft: Super Stinson 108-3
top
Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:24 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

FLYNAKD wrote:...climb like an SOB...


This is no joke, his VSI even has a mark on it thats says SOB
Tadpole offline
User avatar
Posts: 1736
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:10 am
Location: Indiana
top
Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:25 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

Isn't SOB between BFD and HSBatman?
porterjet offline
User avatar
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:37 am
Location: San Luis Obispo
John
KSBP
top
Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:45 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

I think SOB is a seat of the pants alarm that sounds the closer you get to HSBatman.
mountainmatt offline
User avatar
Posts: 2803
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:43 pm
Location: Colorful Colorado
FlyingPoochProductions
FlyColorado.org
top
Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:47 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

jcrowles wrote:In my opinion, a Stinson 108 with the Cont. 0470 is not a whole lot better than the original 165 Franklin ! A close friend had one and he only gained about 4 to 5 MPH in cruise speed over what my 108-3 does. The biggest downfall was not enough fuel capacity even with the big 50 gallons available
with standard tanks. Remember that Cont. 0-470 will burn in cruise anywhere from 12 to 16 GPH depending on the load you are hauling ! My friend owned his for about six months and then got rid of it . He was very disappointed with it !!



I couldn't disagree more here...Like everyone else said T/O role, climb performance heck even the ceiling is increased dramatically. i burn abt 12 per hour no prob and I still indicate 120mph and that is at 22" and 2200/2300rpm, I have plenty to pull it back with still. Granted if themission was to go and get a burger at a 8000 ft runway at sea level then why not just buy a champ. Density altitude would have changed that mindset in one takeoff roll and subsequent climb-out.
FLYNAKD offline
User avatar
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 2:34 pm
Location: Littleton
Aircraft: Super Stinson 108-3
top
Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:35 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

jcrowles wrote:In my opinion, a Stinson 108 with the Cont. 0470 is not a whole lot better than the original 165 Franklin ! A close friend had one and he only gained about 4 to 5 MPH in cruise speed over what my 108-3 does.


The same could be said of the C170 145hp to 180hp conversion. There isn't a great increase in cruise speed, certainly not dollars-to-knots, but that isn't really the most valuable indicator of performance in our intended usage of these machines. Getting off the ground quick and climbing out of a deep hole, it's a massive difference. And as several have already said, in high DA there is no replacement for displacement.
Zzz offline
Janitorial Staff
User avatar
Posts: 2855
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: northern
Aircraft: Swiveling desk chair
Half a century spent proving “it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”
top
Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:56 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

Zane wrote: there is no replacement for displacement.


I like that ! =D>
EZFlap offline
User avatar
Posts: 2226
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:21 am
.
top
Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:02 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

EZFlap wrote:
Zane wrote: there is no replacement for displacement.


I like that ! =D>


TURBO 8)
OregonMaule offline
User avatar
Posts: 6977
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:44 pm
Location: Orygun
My SPOT page

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety". Ben Franklin
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
top
Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:07 pm

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

EZFlap wrote:
Zane wrote: there is no replacement for displacement.


I like that ! =D>


Spoken like a true glider and T-Craft pilot! (er, wait a minute...??)

(Sorry, EZ, couldn't help myself :mrgreen: )
denalipilot offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 2789
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:53 pm
Location: Denali
Aircraft: C-170B+
top
Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:13 am

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

RobBurson wrote:
EZFlap wrote:
Zane wrote: there is no replacement for displacement.


I like that ! =D>


TURBO 8)


Touché!!
Zzz offline
Janitorial Staff
User avatar
Posts: 2855
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: northern
Aircraft: Swiveling desk chair
Half a century spent proving “it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”
top
Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:28 am

Re: Buying a 108-3...maybe.

To come back to a serious question, typically how long will a well treated Franklin go before overhaul? I know the published TBO is 1200 hrs., but unlike some engines I have yet to see one advertised with anything approaching published TBO.
Any comments on lil red, Debs or other Franklin shops?
porterjet offline
User avatar
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:37 am
Location: San Luis Obispo
John
KSBP
top

DISPLAY OPTIONS

PreviousNext
Post a reply
62 posts • Page 3 of 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4
Return to Aircraft Types

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Latest Features

Latest Knowledge Base