I have a thread going in "around the campfire" called "I'm new" so please excuse my ignorance...

How hard is it to remove the wings off of a Stinson/Maule or general high wing type airplane and trailer it back to your home base? A&P recommended or not a huge project for someone mechanically inclined?

Thanks!

Once the wings come off, you are in a long and expensive rebuild process that will very likely cost more than finding a flying airplane. Some are builders, some fliers, some both. If you have never hauled wings, get a mechanic. At the end of the haul, you could need to buy more wings.

If you know and trust a mechanic where it is now, hire him for pre-buy and packing. There are good mechanics on this forum all around the country.

I leased spray planes from a cheap spray outfit. They would haul a damaged plane many miles, not a thousand, to prevent the expense of getting it back together again. And this was mechanics who could completely rebuild a crashed plane in a couple of weeks if needed.

So, it sounds like that is not a good idea...

I'm going to have to buy you a beer contact, you've been a wealth of information on this journey.

Come by 2H2 in SW Missouri any time. I will be at Albuquerque Hotel in Old Town for my Apache Troop 1/9th Air Cav Reunion 20-24 Aug 15. Come by if you get a chance.

That's quite a haul! If you ever get down to Texas for a fly in let me know and I'll try to make the trip!

Wilco.

TxAgfisher wrote:I have a thread going in "around the campfire" called "I'm new" so please excuse my ignorance...

How hard is it to remove the wings off of a Stinson/Maule or general high wing type airplane and trailer it back to your home base? A&P recommended or not a huge project for someone mechanically inclined?

Thanks!

What exactly are you trying to do? Are you thinking of buying a plane that far away, having it disassembled, then hauling it home? If so, why? Is it a project (ie: not flyable?).

If it's flyable, and you're not comfortable flying it home, hire someone to do it. In the long run, it'll be cheaper and probably safer than disassembling it and towing it home. As Contact noted, it's pretty easy to do some damage transporting if you don't know what you're doing.

If it's a project (ie: not flyable), then find a local mechanic to help disassemble it. Build a set of wing cradles (pretty simple to build) and rent a truck or trailer to get it home.

But, if it's flyable, hire a ferry pilot if you aren't able to fly it home yourself.

MTV

I have moved 4 projects. the first a VERY damaged 8GCBC about 200 miles. It was disassembled when I bought it and the salvage company I bought it from did more damage than the thunderstorm which blew it over, including cutting the control cables and crushing the aft fuselage when lifting it. Only took an hour to set it on the trailer with a forklift. The second was a C180 I moved 650 miles. It to was disassembled but was still on the gear. As you can see from the photo the wings fit under the fuselage. It took a full day to load, pad correctly to prevent damage and tie down, but not so as to do further damage. The third was a Cessna 120 which was all together but I was unwilling to fly do the extent of the cracks in the landing gear bulkheads found during an annual the previous owner had started. It was about 100 miles and because of the shorter distance I hauled it in two trips with the wings as a separate load. It took about two hours to pull the wings and loading was not a problem. As a note I originally had not tied the control yoke back, just strapped the the tail wheel to the trailer. Apparently I didn't have the strap tight enough or the angle was wrong because I looked back in the mirror and the tail was flying at about 55 on the highway. The last was a 7ECA which was disassembled that I hauled about 400 miles. I had to make a simple rack to carry a wing on each side of the fuselage. It took about four hours to load and tie down.

It really doesn't matter if you are moving it a mile or all the way across the country the care and planning to do it safely should be the same, just a few extra days on the road.

If you disassemble an aircraft to move it think about what you need to do to put it back together before you take it apart. I you pull control cables pull a wire in as you pull out the control cable so that it is easy to get back in. You get the idea. Lots of photos as you go are helpful. If you buy a project that is apart be careful that all the little parts are there, they add up fast. For example the toothed strips which hold the edge of the headliner over the cabin doors was missing on both sides from my 180. It took quite a while to find a pair of used ones and they still cost me $500.

It is important for me to note that I have yet to work on any of these projects, The 8GCBC was purchased as a long term project almost 10 years ago and it took me 5 years to find a correct engine core and fixed pitch prop. I have had the 180 for 5 years. Life got in the way,and I am glad I can be there when my parents have needed me. The 120 and 7ECA were both bought to try to make money. I'll see before I purchase any others.

The most important point of this long post is that I have had a flying airplane the entire time I have owned them. Probably why it has taken a while to get to them, I was out flying or working on the one I had to fly rather than on my project. I've always just bought a 170 when I needed an plane to fly, the most recent a 180 hp 170B.

photos of the 180, 120 and 7ECA on a trailer are in my album

Tim
A&P IA

I generally hold 1500 miles as a bare minimum for the projects I buy. Or so it seems. From Reno to Mineola Texas for one, and from Reno to Edmonton Alberta for the other. Just seems to work that way. But....think it through. Most of the damage occurs from repetitive motion in the trailer. One bump may not do much but 10,000 of them take their toll. Old couch cushions from the Gospel Mission thrift store collection center are your friend. Inner tubes and a pump. Also, lots of ratchet straps. Not those little 1" flimsy ones from Harbor Freight but the 16' 1 1/2" ones from someplace else. I also some bigger ones. Bring tools to build stuff with. Rent a Penski truck and hang the wings on straps from the walls and screw down the main gear and tailwheel to the floor. Carpet Scraps, cardboard, pillows, cushions any kind of soft stuff to keep it from knocking and bashing. Don't try to load it all in one day. You may get it in there but it will be worthless when you get home. Take your time, stop every 5 miles for the first 25 then frequently there after. Watch out for rail road crossings.

TxAg, even if you are mechanically inclined, unless you have rebuilt airplanes before I would recommend that you think long and hard before you get involved with a project. I know lots of people who buy project airplanes, or turn their intact airplane into a project, and all too many of them never get finished. Plus, it's awful easy to buy a project, and actually get it up and flying, only to discover you have spent $50K on a $30K airplane. Sometimes, these projects aren't a bargain even if they're free.

Your other thread indicates that you're just getting started on your private license, you might think about just renting for that. Pilot training issues plus new-to-you airplane issues AND new-to-owning issues might be a pretty tough combination. For sure, if you get involved with rebuilding a project you won't have much time for flight instruction, and vice versa. If you must buy, maybe get a good solid but inexpensive C150- you can find them for $15-20K & generally sell them for what you paid after a year or two. Or if you want something that'll be more useful after you get your ticket, you can find a nice old Stinson or Pacer or C172 in flying condition for $30K or less-- all "two plus two" four-seaters that are pretty capable for the price.

I agree with Hotrod 180. It has disturbed me, over the years, to see so many good airplanes go down forever because someone removed perfectly safe fabric that didn't look so good. If you are poor and want a show plane, buy a pretty model.

I just bought a project plane and my current one was a flying restoration project.

If you want to fly airplanes, buy the best example of the one you want that you can afford. If you buy a cheap one, you'll end of putting all the money and then some into it anyway.

Projects often run a lot more than a good flying example will cost you. Parts add up QUICK. Based on the 'Can of Worms' theory and Murphy's law: If you have to pull the wings off, you're looking at two years of work before they go back on.

Also, I wouldn't buy a project plane unless you already have experience working on that type of airplane and know what you're getting into.
My project is a '52 170 and I only got it as a project because I have 5 years doing a flying restoration on my current '52 170 and I pretty much know what I'm getting into. I'm still betting it will live in my garage for the next three years as I go thru and replace....everything. BUT it's in great shape and I got it for next to nothing.

Just a thought but making your first plane a project is rarely a success story. You may be the exception and I don't know your situation.

The trouble with a "quick recover" job is that there's no such thing-- there's almost always something (sometimes a lot of somethings) that needs fixing before the fabric goes back on. I have a friend who bought a beater Pacer for a cheap t/w trainer-- he started digging into it to "get it ready to annual" and ended up with it completely torn apart. Seven years into the rebuild so far and still counting. BTW this was his first airplane, so far not what I'd call a success.

One of the critical parts of any project is to have an airworthy, legal airplane in the end. Unless you are an IA for a certificated airplane or a A&P to do the conditional inspection for an experimental or have built an experimental and have a repair certificate for that individual airplane as the builder you are going to need the help of a certificated mechanic. I would say that it would be impossible to find a mechanic to approve your work after the fact. I would not buy a project unless I had the required certificates or the support of someone willing to directly supervise and sign off my work. The level of work you will be able to perform will be directly related to the level of trust of the mechanic has for you to ask before you do something that you do not have the knowledge or experience to do. Even if you have the certificates the FAA will require you to have experience in the task you are performing or someone experienced in that job to help you get the experience. My FAA Principle Maintenance Inspector ask me who was going to work with me to get the experience to do the fabric work on my 7ECA project. That may be difficult for someone just starting out unless your father, mother, brother, sister, best friend from grade school, you get the idea is qualified and willing to do that for you. For an experimental certificated airplane it is easier as you can join the local EAA chapter and most if not all of them have experienced members who will act as mentors to those starting out. This is not to say that it can't be done but there will be obstacles along the way.

Tim

If you are looking for a project for the fun of the build, go for it. If you are trying to save money, it probably wont work out very well.

My dad and I just finished a Husky project, and had a blast working on it and learning about the fabric process. We probably have the same amount of money into it that it is worth, but we figured on that going in.

I would do it again, but I enjoy projects and have something to fly while the project sits.

lancef53 wrote:I would do it again, but I enjoy projects and have something to fly while the project sits.

This is good advice, I think, no matter which way you take it. If you don't like a project, or are antsy about flying and don't have another aircraft to do it in, buying a broken plane might not be a good idea.

But if you can say yes to both, I don't see how it could be a bad idea. As long as you have the coin to split between the flying and the non-flying birds, anyway.

Just my two cents.

Thanks for all the info, I had come across a Stinson that hadn't been in the air since 1985, however, it was complete and looked to be pretty good in the pictures. Story was an old timer lost medical and it sat until he passed and the family was getting rid of it. Don't know if it's still available but flew regularly until then.