You seem dead set on keeping your future airplane on your 1000' farm strip. Trees on one end & neighbors on the other doesn't make that seem like the wisest choice. Like I said, lots of strips like that are around, and doable in the right conditions-- but not necessarily all the time. There was a strip like that near where I live, the owner kept his airplane (Stinson 105) there, instead of at the wide-open public use airport less than 2 miles away. The guy & his wife were killed a few years ago, trying to take off in unfavorable conditions. You tell me-- was it worth it, just to save a few bucks or to be able to brag he kept his airplane at his own strip?

I own a C180, and although I'm not the greatest pilot out there, it is a very capable airplane. But I wouldn't want to have to try to fly it day in and day out on the strip you describe, I think there'd be too many unfavorable days when I had to sit on the ground or else take a chance on hurting the airplane and/or myself.

At the risk of drifting this thread slightly, I have to ask: what is it about the 140 that makes it so much more attractive than an early 150? (Minus the obvious gear placement.) There's always a ton of chatter about the "fun to fly" factor of the 140, but the 150 doesn't get quite the same love.

I always thought the airframes were really similar.

Back on topic, I would never rely on flying my 150 out of a really short strip regularly. But then again 90% of my flying is with DA creeping towards 10k so I'm a little out of the loop in regard to how these airplanes usually perform.

CH701...

UngaWunga wrote:CH701...

That's a Savannah, Tyler's plane.

Crenshaw wrote:At the risk of drifting this thread slightly, I have to ask: what is it about the 140 that makes it so much more attractive than an early 150? (Minus the obvious gear placement.) There's always a ton of chatter about the "fun to fly" factor of the 140, but the 150 doesn't get quite the same love.

I always thought the airframes were really similar.

Back on topic, I would never rely on flying my 150 out of a really short strip regularly. But then again 90% of my flying is with DA creeping towards 10k so I'm a little out of the loop in regard to how these airplanes usually perform.

I always enjoyed flying a 150--learned to fly in a fleet of them at Elmendorf AFB in late 72 and 73, and then locally a friend had one with a 125hp engine, which I flew a couple of times. At high DAs, they (and 140s) are more than a bit doggish, and since I live with high DAs every day of the year, even that 125hp mod wasn't enough. A 150/150 would be a lot better, but pretty soon having more carrying capacity makes some sense. I really like my P172D with 180hp and CS prop--light on the controls, pleasant to fly, great for 2 people and baggage or 2 and dog, or even for 4 for sight seeing as long as the fuel is down to about half tanks. With just me and dog and camping equipment, it's fine in the mountains, too, up to about 14,000'.

Cary

what made me interested in the c-140 was it has the little wheel in the right place and it appeared to be in a price range where one wouldn't have to rob a bank to afford one, but with the info I have gotten it doesn't sound like a good choice so I am now looking into experimental/ champ/ t-craft options. I have flown a 65hp champ and it definitely is way less then what I am looking for but they owner also has a 85hp with a climb prop that he says would do what I want very nicely. but before I fly it in needs to have some fabric put on and reassembled.

Learning and utilizing the basic low ground effect takeoff, for those with economical low powered airplanes, is critical. Also, just missing the obstacles and leveling over them. What makes the C-150 such a great airplane is that it is cheap and will perform well if flown well.

cstolaircraft wrote:what made me interested in the c-140 was it has the little wheel in the right place and it appeared to be in a price range where one wouldn't have to rob a bank to afford one, but with the info I have gotten it doesn't sound like a good choice so I am now looking into experimental/ champ/ t-craft options. I have flown a 65hp champ and it definitely is way less then what I am looking for but they owner also has a 85hp with a climb prop that he says would do what I want very nicely. but before I fly it in needs to have some fabric put on and reassembled.

It's not so much that a 140 (or 150) is not a capable airplane, but not many airplanes are really capable for a 1000' strip. Sure, a good, experienced pilot can do a lot with a little bitty strip like that, but there are safe limits for even a good STOL performance airplane and an experienced STOL pilot. Add in obstacles of any kind, and what seemed completely doable just becomes a poor choice--and dangerous.

My regular instructor is partners in a 140, and it's a fun airplane. When I flew it, it was coming up for an overhaul, and it was really, really anemic. We took off from Fort Collins-Loveland 33, which is 8000' long, on a cool, light jacket comfortable day--don't recall the temp. By the end of the runway, we were at maybe 200' AGL. With its new engine, which is a more powerful version, I understand it's a lot more usable, but I haven't flown it to compare.

Years ago, when I was in the TR182 partnership, I was thinking I'd like to get out of it and get my own airplane, and I thought a T-craft would be fun, and inexpensive to fly. The flight school where I took my aerobatics training (in a Super Decathlon) had one, so I went up with their lightest instructor, a young woman who probably weighed no more than 120 lbs. At the time, I weighed about 170. I had no trouble getting it off the ground quickly, but if there'd been obstacles, it would have been dicey. It virtually leaped off the ground on a cool day at Boulder--and then climbed out at about 200 fpm. So much for my idea of getting a T-craft.

Before nailing down your choices, I suggest that you try them out. See what they'll actually do in a realistic situation. Don't take others' word for how great a performer a particular airplane is, and don't let someone else do the flying. You need to know what you can do with that particular airplane--your skills, your experience or lack thereof, etc. Remember that grass will add distance--150% of paved is a fair increase. Also remember that, just as I learned with the T-craft, getting off the ground isn't enough.

And heck, just think of all the fun you'll have, flying a variety of different airplanes!

Cary

From my experience with the C120 so far (about 2 months, 75 hours worth) not a great short field obstacle clearance plane. This being with a tired C85. Yes I can have it off of a dry grass strip in 900 feet, but I can't climb over anything substantial for another 1000 feet at least (Calm wind, DA 3-4K). It'll land in a far tighter spot than it will depart. Perhaps my prop is not as much climb as it should be. Popping off with the flaps of a 140 may help slightly. I also still have the gear extenders, so the heavy tail is not helping the short field performance either (my theory anyways).

Still great plane, 5 gal/hr all day long, ~90-100 mph cruise. Tailwheel, fun to fly. Great conversation piece. Spend most my time at higher DAs (high desert and southern tip of the Sierras). Also, it's with the original Strombug carb with the mixture control disabled...jury is still out as to whether being able to lean for peak power with a Stromburg is even possible...just search the internet on that; consensus is lacking.

Just fly around with a glider mindset, thermals and orographic lift are your friend. 1000+ ft/min at 6000 ft in an 85 hp plane is nice to see if you can find the right air.

With the O-235, I've heard it's quite different. And then or course there was a 120 on Barnstormers last week with a 160 HP O-320, that'd probable do the trick...just be sure to visit the fuel farm frequently.

I've owned my 0-235 1946 C120 for close to 30 years. Trust Me, It's NOT a STOL airplane. 1000' with obstacles is guaranteed to make you a statistic! If you are going to operate out of that small a field, Buy a Super Cub or a Helio Courier so you can stay alive!

Crenshaw wrote:.... what is it about the 140 that makes it so much more attractive than an early 150? (Minus the obvious gear placement.) There's always a ton of chatter about the "fun to fly" factor of the 140, but the 150 doesn't get quite the same love. I always thought the airframes were really similar. ......

I trained in a C152, and my first airplane was a C150. I probably have 350 hours between the two. Some years later I owned a C150/150TD. Not even considering the added power, the taildragger version was much sportier to fly- I guess getting rid of that big draggy nosewheel assembly is what made it more responsive.

cstolaircraft wrote:..... owner also has a 85hp with a climb prop that he says would do what I want very nicely. but before I fly it in needs to have some fabric put on and reassembled.

Oh, is that all? Recovering and reassembling (esp if anything needs fixing) is a much more involved task than a lot of people think, so don't hold your breath waiting for that one.
No offense, but I don't think you're gonna find an airplane that will consistently safely operate out of the farm strip you describe. I'd suggest you just get yourself a nice C140 and base it at a regular airport.

http://www.texasstolroundup.org/past_events.html

Take a look at the impressive 25' STOL results, with the understanding that these were guys flying with a competition mindset that only had to stay above an imaginary line between two pylons. Consider how the results might differ on a hot summer day while you're staring down 50' ft trees on final. I can land my Cub in less than 500 ft clearing pine trees on a good day, but I've also watched 1200 ft of runway pass underneath on a bad day.

hotrod180 wrote:

cstolaircraft wrote:..... owner also has a 85hp with a climb prop that he says would do what I want very nicely. but before I fly it in needs to have some fabric put on and reassembled.

Oh, is that all? Recovering and reassembling (esp if anything needs fixing) is a much more involved task than a lot of people think, so don't hold your breath waiting for that one.
No offense, but I don't think you're gonna find an airplane that will consistently safely operate out of the farm strip you describe. I'd suggest you just get yourself a nice C140 and base it at a regular airport.

He is a A&P with no job who likes tinkering with airplanes. realistically I would give him a full year from now to get it down as he is getting pretty close to his spring RV8 rebuild time frame

HotRod 180 Nailed it ! Find a nice 120/140 and base it at a nearby airport . I've had my 120 for a couple of years . NOT a STOL plane but flown within certain limits it's a Fun , Inexpensive ( well as far as airplanes go ) way to ' Buy Into ' aircraft ownership and operate . A good way to get some Tailwheel Time ( practice using your feet to fly ) built up . Hope you get to Buy your First !

..... sounds like you have a Nice place for skeet shooting there tho

hotrod180 wrote: No offense, but I don't think you're gonna find an airplane * that will fit your budget* that will consistently safely operate out of the farm strip you describe. ....

is what I meant to say.