River rat wrote:The Cessna 170B is one of the best planes ever built and lycoming 0-360s are one of the best engines around it's crazy not to put them together.

River Rat for the Win!!

-DP

denalipilot wrote:

River rat wrote:The Cessna 170B is one of the best planes ever built and lycoming 0-360s are one of the best engines around it's crazy not to put them together.

River Rat for the Win!!

-DP

It's hard to knock a 170B, unless it has an O-300

I love the O-300, just not when I'm trying to clear 50 foot obstacles with a load onboard...

Congrats, man. It'll be a sweet machine. What STC are you using and why did you decide to go injected?

Zzz wrote:Congrats, man. It'll be a sweet machine. What STC are you using and why did you decide to go injected?

Using the Stoots STC. Chena Marina is doing the work. They performed the original installation for the STC approval, using a personal airplane of one of the owners, and they've done a couple others since. Definitely the specialists, and pretty local for me. They've been awesome to work with.

The engine is factory-new, with the optional roller tappets. Required to make 5% over rated Hp, so theoretically a 190Hp package. 2000 hr TBO.

The Stoots conversion is specifically for the injected 360. Unlike some injected conversions it does not require any header tank to be added. I hope to see more precise fuel and engine management, and pretty good fuel economy over carbureted. I still have the stock fuel capacity, but with the speed increase, CS prop and injected fuel efficiency, I am thinking that won't be a big setback for 90% of my flying. I'm going with a EI CGR-30P for instrumentation. In the pattern on the ferry flight to drop it off, it dawned on me that I was pulling carb heat in this plane for the last time.

Had some downtime waiting on the engine, so I bought some airplane storage by having Northland add a Sportsman and some Atlee seats in February. Also going with a Flight Resource MT prop courtesy of John on this site. Fingers crossed that his three-blade 170 STC is ready soon. If so, I hope to be the second owner of one of those, right after John himself. In the meantime, it'll get a two-blade MT.

Other updates include second-row shoulder belts, LED lighting, MaxPulse, RMD wingtips, and a new SS DelAir firewall, and paint as needed.

I've been quietly picking the brains of a lot of people on BCP, and now seems like a really good opportunity to say THANKS EVERYONE!



-DP

Right on DP! It sounds like you're going to have a really nice 170!

Thanks Rob. Your detailed write-ups on your Sportsman figured large in my decision, so thanks for sharing that.

-DP

p.s. The moment of truth will be getting it on the scales, and deciding whether or not to follow you guys down the rabbit hole of gutting the interior.

Any idea what the weight difference is between an IO-360 and MT prop vs a O-300 and fixed pitch McCauley?

robw56 wrote:Any idea what the weight difference is between an IO-360 and MT prop vs a O-300 and fixed pitch McCauley?

Not exactly, but I understand it's not that significant. The 2-blade MT saves about 30 lbs over the 2-blade aluminum Hartzell, which was definitely a factor in my prop selection.

I think the old Continental was a little beefier and heavier in case than the Lyc. I think I remember someone telling me one time that they lost weight by converting.

Wish I had the pocket money to do this. I will be watching closely:)

DP,
Can't wait to hear how that IO works out for you in the 170. I've often thought that would be a nice final touch to the 0-360 conversion. I occasionally fly a Travel Air with parallel valve I0-360's. They run so nice!
I just installed the EI CGR 30 CP in my 170 (pretty sweet).



As far as weight goes, my Avcon conversion added 40 lbs. on the nose. If the CS prop wasn't all 40, I'd say it's probably 99%. I've since been replacing stuff with new lighter weight goddies. Last weight saver was a Sky-tech starter. The next will be replacing the Gill with an Odysey. Those two alone will lose half the conversion wt. gain. Your prop ought to be amazing.

Would love to see some pics of your project.

Tom

TomW wrote:DP,
Can't wait to hear how that IO works out for you in the 170. I've often thought that would be a nice final touch to the 0-360 conversion. I occasionally fly a Travel Air with parallel valve I0-360's. They run so nice!
I just installed the EI CGR 30 CP in my 170 (pretty sweet).
As far as weight goes, my Avcon conversion added 40 lbs. on the nose. If the CS prop wasn't all 40, I'd say it's probably 99%. I've since been replacing stuff with new lighter weight goddies. Last weight saver was a Sky-tech starter. The next will be replacing the Gill with an Odysey. Those two alone will lose half the conversion wt. gain. Your prop ought to be amazing.

Would love to see some pics of your project.

Tom

Tom,

I'd be glad to share progress photos, but it'll be hard to get many I'm thinking. For one thing I live a few hours from the shop, and for another, these guys work fast! I dropped it off last friday afternoon, and they had the gear swapped and the old engine off by quitting time!

FWIW, there's another guy on this site with this engine conversion. Along with my shop and the STC holder, they could all tell you more about it at this point than I could. But I do have high expectations.

Nice looking CGR-30P!

-DP

Cool news, DP!

I used to live just up the ridge from Chena Marina and flew in and out of the strip and pond with friends fairly often. I've heard good things about that shop!

denalipilot wrote:

robw56 wrote:Any idea what the weight difference is between an IO-360 and MT prop vs a O-300 and fixed pitch McCauley?

Not exactly, but I understand it's not that significant. The 2-blade MT saves about 30 lbs over the 2-blade aluminum Hartzell, which was definitely a factor in my prop selection.

Actually, the MT prop weighs about 19 pounds less than a 76 inch Hartzell. You're thinking of the weight differential between a Hartzell 80 inch prop with a harmonic damper. And the IO 360 already has a dampened crankshaft, so you can run the longer Hartzell without the harmonic damper assy.

The bad news is that the IO 360 engine is substantially heavier than the O 360, again due to the crankshaft counter weights and the additional beef of the case. Depending on what model O 360 you're comparing it to, the IO 360 is any where from about 14 pounds to as much as 3o pounds heavier, as I recall.

The IO is a great engine though, and that'll make a real airplane out of the old girl.

MTV

The bad news is that the IO 360 engine is substantially heavier than the O 360, again due to the crankshaft counter weights and the additional beef of the case. Depending on what model O 360 you're comparing it to, the IO 360 is any where from about 14 pounds to as much as 3o pounds heavier, as I recall.

The IO is a great engine though, and that'll make a real airplane out of the old girl.

MTV[/quote]

Mike,
When you say up to as much as 30 pound heavier, are you referring to the "angle valve" IO-360 (200 HP), or the "parallel valve" IO-360 (180 HP)?
Just curious
Tom

I am guessing RoC with the new engine is 1,000fpm+?

Does range/ endurance suffer at all, or does the fuel injection and extra speed compensate?

L18C-95 wrote:I am guessing RoC with the new engine is 1,000fpm+?

Does range/ endurance suffer at all, or does the fuel injection and extra speed compensate?

I've got some reliable, real-world numbers from my mechanic that support 1000+ fpm, but this will be a slightly different beast, with a Sportsman STOL and a two- or possibly three-blade MT prop.
I am prepared for for a slight reduction in range, but have reason to hope that it won't be that significant given the added speed and efficiency. For most of my flights range isn't a big consideration, but I'll report back for others' interest once I have some first-hand experience. My O-300A burned a reliable 7 gpm. Other little factors will include reduced drag from removal of two venturis on the boot cowl, and elimination of one exhaust pipe, and swapping from Madras super droop tips to RMD 206 tips.

If range was to become a concern, I would seriously look at the Del Air tank extensions. Before adding the Sportsman I looked into whether it would interfere with a future Del Air tank mod, and was told it would not.
-DP

DP
You may want to look at the Metco Air wing tips, their claims are pretty realistic.

I had an 18 gallon aux tank that fit flat across the baggage floor. You turned on a pump and transfer up into the right wing tank. I liked it.