Here is my intro thread if you don't know me: New pilot, airplane owner & BCP member (SoCal)

After lots of research I finally took the plunge on an "panel" update for my C120. I wanted to make sure I kept the spirit of the panel, while giving myself some added capability. I had an old Narco Nav/Com, ADF and a tumbling attitude indicator. The portable sigtronics intercom was jerry-rigged into the system and was making for not so clear coms. I added lemo jacks and moved the plugs to behind seats to keep the cords out of the way.

I started by removing the old Nav/Com, ADF and associated indicators. In it's place I installed the Garmin GTR200 (built in two place intercom) and panel-mounted a Garmin Aera 660.

Then I replaced the attitude indicator with the Garmin G5.

The entire system works together awesome. The Aera 660 feeds heading info to the G5 (both on PFD & HSI) and allows me to fly RNAV approaches. The GPS is also linked to the radio and labels the selected frequencies and can load the standby from the screen. If I decide to get a GDL39 it will display ADSB weather and traffic. It also has synthetic vision. When on the ground it loads the geo-referenced taxi diagram. With a bluetooth headset you can receive audio alerts and WiFi is used for all the database updates. It's really easy to send flight plan updates to it as well.

Overall I feel like I achieved my mission, I added a lot of capability without hacking up or totally re-doing the panel. I also almost broke even selling the old stuff. For VFR day/night and some light IFR training, this system couldn't be any better. I have two open 3-1/8" holes now, I think I'll eventually get an engine monitor for one. Not sure about the other.

Wiring the headset jacks/lemos:



The final product. Controller mounted as well:


Finished panel:


HSI/Snythetic Vision:

Taxi Mode:


G5 In Flight:


Panel In flight (before buying the GPS):


Before:

Nicely done Sir, enjoy

Looks great! Just bought a GTR200B and a GTX335 for ADS-B compliance. Love what you did with the panel! Didnt know you could interface the garmin vfr GPS with the G5. I might have to consider that...

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I would’ve thought it was impossible, but you’ve thoroughly updated without doing violence to the original panel. Nicely done!

Welcome.

Nice!

How did you get around the GTR200 not being TSO'd? Or does it just not matter? It's a lot cheaper than the 225 and just as nice if not nicer it seems.

Nice install Hamer, all you need now is a Garmin 345 transponder so you can display ADSB wx and traffic on your 660. The traffic display in So. Cal could be a life saver!

Kurt

asa wrote:How did you get around the GTR200 not being TSO'd? Or does it just not matter? It's a lot cheaper than the 225 and just as nice if not nicer it seems.

I've heard it said that a TSO'd radio isnt required unless you want to do an IFR cert.

Thanks everyone! I've very happy with the outcome!

jlacharite wrote:Looks great! Just bought a GTR200B and a GTX335 for ADS-B compliance. Love what you did with the panel! Didnt know you could interface the garmin vfr GPS with the G5. I might have to consider that...

I almost got the GTR200B, but since both my headsets are already bluetooth I decided I didn't "need" it. Yea it's a simple RS232 between all the components, software setup is easy as well.

StuBob wrote:I would’ve thought it was impossible, but you’ve thoroughly updated without doing violence to the original panel. Nicely done!

Thanks! I'm glad I was able to keep the spirit of the panel.

asa wrote:How did you get around the GTR200 not being TSO'd? Or does it just not matter? It's a lot cheaper than the 225 and just as nice if not nicer it seems.

For Part 91 operations the com radio doesn't need to be TSO'd. If you think about it, many people fly with handhelds which aren't TSO'd either. There are only a few items specifically called out as needing to be TSO'd, ELT, Transponder/ADSB, Encoder, can't remember the others.

G44 wrote:Nice install Hamer, all you need now is a Garmin 345 transponder so you can display ADSB wx and traffic on your 660. The traffic display in So. Cal could be a life saver!

Kurt

Definitely need some type of ADSB in around here. I'm on the fence about the 345. I already have a solid transponder (GTX327), so I may just go with the tailbeacon/GDL82, maybe do the 335.

As far as IN goes, I'll probably keep it separate, a little cheaper that way and the GDL39 adds AHRS data for the GPS which is a bonus (without AHRS the 3D Vision mode doesn't display attitude info, just terrain and GPS derived altitude/speed. It can easily be hard wired to the whole system.

Definitely need some type of ADSB in around here. I'm on the fence about the 345. I already have a solid transponder (GTX327), so I may just go with the tailbeacon/GDL82, maybe do the 335.

As far as IN goes, I'll probably keep it separate, a little cheaper that way and the GDL39 adds AHRS data for the GPS which is a bonus (without AHRS the 3D Vision mode doesn't display attitude info, just terrain and GPS derived altitude/speed. It can easily be hard wired to the whole system.

I was asking around for quotes a couple weeks ago about GTX335 vs GTX345. 345 is of course nice because it's all in one, but it is absurdly more expensive. $2000 more for the unit then about $700-1000 more for install than 335. I do not know why but I got a quote in anchorage and kenai and they were both the same. 335 plus portable ADS-B in seems like the way to go. Everyone with a 327 is in a (in my opinion) unfortunate place because its a great modern transponder but doesn't meet ADS-B out. Folks with an old non-digital, the choice is obvious (in my opinion) to go for something like a 335.

Great looking panel. Very yellow.

Wow, the price difference for me between the 335 and 345 was about $800 if I remember correctly and negligible difference in labor. My total labor for the 345 install and hook up to my GTN750 and all the testing and so on was about $1,400. I got mine done at Premier in Fort Wayne, Indiana. I was very happy with their work. It was about $6,500 out the door for the 345 which included the install and coupling to my GTN750 panel mount unit. I think some shops are quoting high prices since its getting closer to crunch time and they are super busy, mine did not do this, they quoted a very competitive price for everything.

I like the 345 and how simple and clean it is compared to a 335 and additional box (GDL39, 52 or Stratus) to get ADSB in. The 345 has AHARS that will bluetooth to your 660 or 796, you dont have to use a GDL39 or 5x series to get this feature. I would give serious consideration to the 345 over the 335 if the numbers are closer to what I was quoted, seeing the traffic on the screen sure is nice, it is a great addition to also using your eyes.

Kurt

asa wrote:

Definitely need some type of ADSB in around here. I'm on the fence about the 345. I already have a solid transponder (GTX327), so I may just go with the tailbeacon/GDL82, maybe do the 335.

As far as IN goes, I'll probably keep it separate, a little cheaper that way and the GDL39 adds AHRS data for the GPS which is a bonus (without AHRS the 3D Vision mode doesn't display attitude info, just terrain and GPS derived altitude/speed. It can easily be hard wired to the whole system.

I was asking around for quotes a couple weeks ago about GTX335 vs GTX345. 345 is of course nice because it's all in one, but it is absurdly more expensive. $2000 more for the unit then about $700-1000 more for install than 335. I do not know why but I got a quote in anchorage and kenai and they were both the same. 335 plus portable ADS-B in seems like the way to go. Everyone with a 327 is in a (in my opinion) unfortunate place because its a great modern transponder but doesn't meet ADS-B out. Folks with an old non-digital, the choice is obvious (in my opinion) to go for something like a 335.

Great looking panel. Very yellow.

If you have a 327 you can go with the GDL82 and meet the ADS-B out requirements.
I am curious how you got approval for the 660 hooked up to the G5. Per the installation manual and Garmin, for a certified install it has to be a certified GPS to hook them together.

Similar question as A1Skinner, my G5 HSI CDI won’t scale to APP when connected to my Aera GPS, regardless what I set the CDI in the Aera to. Garmin engineer I talked to said they did this on purpose so that pilots could not fly RNAV approaches from a handheld. Had to look up what the little exclamation mark meant, learn something every day.

Dave, do you have any TSO vs non-TSO issues with comm radios in Canada?

Karmutzen wrote:Similar question as A1Skinner, my G5 HSI CDI won’t scale to APP when connected to my Aera GPS, regardless what I set the CDI in the Aera to. Garmin engineer I talked to said they did this on purpose so that pilots could not fly RNAV approaches from a handheld. Had to look up what the little exclamation mark meant, learn something every day.

Dave, do you have any TSO vs non-TSO issues with comm radios in Canada?

I'm guessing he has the non certified version of the G5 to accomplish this.

Yes we have the TSO issue in Canada. General consensus is that if you are flying into class C or B airspace where a comm is required, it must he TSO. Also, the CARS state that appliances and parts installed must be TSO'd or similarly approved for install on certified A/C. So we are basically stuck using TSO stuff. And 6ess I have asked TC a few of the work arounds and been shut down on every front that I've been able to think of.

Yea, because I kept all my original instruments in the MEL my A&P felt that I didn’t need the STC’d version. Technically it’s not to be used for primary flight information.

The attitude indicator that was in there was actually non-TSO and never part of the original equipment, it only every came with a turn and bank.

Thanks for the information Kurt. I’ll look into the 345 a little more.

G44 wrote:Wow, the price difference for me between the 335 and 345 was about $800 if I remember correctly and negligible difference in labor. My total labor for the 345 install and hook up to my GTN750 and all the testing and so on was about $1,400. I got mine done at Premier in Fort Wayne, Indiana. I was very happy with their work. It was about $6,500 out the door for the 345 which included the install and coupling to my GTN750 panel mount unit. I think some shops are quoting high prices since its getting closer to crunch time and they are super busy, mine did not do this, they quoted a very competitive price for everything.

I like the 345 and how simple and clean it is compared to a 335 and additional box (GDL39, 52 or Stratus) to get ADSB in. The 345 has AHARS that will bluetooth to your 660 or 796, you dont have to use a GDL39 or 5x series to get this feature. I would give serious consideration to the 345 over the 335 if the numbers are closer to what I was quoted, seeing the traffic on the screen sure is nice, it is a great addition to also using your eyes.

Kurt

I agree with you on all counts, 345 would be preferred. I was looking at the unit with built in GPS with plans to put it in a plane without a WAAS/ifr gps. I think the GTN may by why yours is cheaper?

Aircraft Spruce:
GTX335 w/GPS: $3195
GTX345 w/GPS: $5470

My quote in Kenai for 335 was $3300 for unit, transponder antenna, GPS antenna, encoder + $1500 total labor and misc. The guy said round up to $5k to be sure. He also offered to sell me all the parts and then custom build the wiring harness for me but me find a way to do the actual install labor myself and he would never need the airplane. He said this would be about $600 off, and he offered that option because it didn't tie up hangar space for him.

Another distinction to be made, my 120 is VFR only. So even with this added capability, it's still not legal for IMC flight. Practice approaches are ok. This was my goal to begin with, be able to do some light IFR training in my 120 vs always renting.

asa wrote:I agree with you on all counts, 345 would be preferred. I was looking at the unit with built in GPS with plans to put it in a plane without a WAAS/ifr gps. I think the GTN may by why yours is cheaper?

Aircraft Spruce:
GTX335 w/GPS: $3195
GTX345 w/GPS: $5470

My quote in Kenai for 335 was $3300 for unit, transponder antenna, GPS antenna, encoder + $1500 total labor and misc. The guy said round up to $5k to be sure. He also offered to sell me all the parts and then custom build the wiring harness for me but me find a way to do the actual install labor myself and he would never need the airplane. He said this would be about $600 off, and he offered that option because it didn't tie up hangar space for him.

Yea another benefit to the 335 is that any A&P can install it, $1500 is alot for installation, my A&P said it's actually a very simple upgrade from the 327 and would only take a couple hours (He charges $60/hr).

The 120 still has the VOR antenna mounted, and the cable runs all the way to the panel. I got to thinking I might as well take advantage of that. I panel mounted the antenna cable and mounted my Yaesu 550 (RAM mount). Using the external antenna extends the range noticeably. I had never played with the VOR function on the handheld, I was surprised how smooth it was. I'll have to see how it handles a hold.