Looking for suggestions... If a guy were, say, going to totally replace his wheels,brakes, and tires on a Cessna 170, what would be the ideal replacement combination? (Within reason, it's just a 145 hp airplane!)

The standard replacement of Cleveland 199-46 (6.00-6) is about $1000 for wheels and brakes. I'd like to get something just a little bigger on there. Is my only option a bigger tire?

Zane

800 X 6 tires (4 ply!) are legal on the 170 by type certificate. I've seen lotsa 850's installed, some by field approval, some not. IMHO 800's are
plenty for most of us,unless you're gonna be going into somewhere really soft/rough, then sometimes even 850's aren't enough. Maybe some bushwheels?
I have a set of 199-62 Cleveland double-pucks on my 170, field-approved. Don't have much time in any other 170's with single-puck brakes, but the double-pucks seem like overkill for a 170.
Tire sizes might be subject to approval by the Cleveland STC.
How about a (small) pic of your new mount, Zane?

Eric

I agree with Eric, 800s are probably sufficient for 95+% of the
stuff you might encounter with a stock-engined 170.

I have 850s on mine via field approval, but was only honestly
glad they were on there maybe once or twice over the last
several years. I have a mounted set of 800s on Clevelands
I've been thinking of swapping out on there just to see how
much speed the 850s cost me.

While your there, check to see if you have solid axles (hollow/original
is fine for 170s operated on smooth turf or pavement with wheelpants,
etc.).

I have double-puck brakes on mine (also field approved) and agree
there's plenty of brake there, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
At least now, *I* get to decide how much brake is required for
the given situation. With the single-pucks on there, the brakes
could give up before I was ready for them to!

You can shop around (eBay, whatever) and get this stuff for 1/2
the price (or less) than new.

I forget which one (I think the Kenmore) but one of the 850 STCs
for C-180s prohibits the use of 3-bolt Cleveland wheels (you have
to use the later 5-bolt or 6-bolt wheels). There were apparently
some failures in Alaska of the 3-bolt wheels running large tires,
but if you don't intend to land on boulders all-day-long, the 3-bolt
wheels should do fine.

One final thought... I've heard more than one source say if you
increase the tire size (to something like 850s), you probably ought
to consider going with double-puck brakes as well, as the rotational
inertia is higher with the bigger/heavier tires, which tends to
erode / negate existing brake performance.

I've seen a Gar-Aero 10 inch wheel set-up before on the 170B.

Okay okay, I was just thinking out loud

Brad

Hey Bela, good to see you over here! I'd be interested to see what kind of speed increase you get if you swap out to those 800's for a trip. I have no dillusions of using the 170 as a super bush plane with it's current configuration, so 8.50's is probably as far as I would go. However, I would like to be able to land somewhere like Land's Inn where the strip is grass and fairly rough. This is probably a topic that has been pounded into the dirt over at TIC170A, so I should probably just go do my research over there instead of reinventing the wheel.

Eric- The bird won't be home til later this month, I'll get you a pic then. Gonna scrap those Goodyears and probably just throw on a brand new set of Clevelands since I can get them at cost. Was scrolling thru the STC list for wheels and brakes on the FAA site, and there isn't a whole lot of options.

Brad-Saw the GAR-Aero one, but can find nothing about them on the web. I mean, if you don't have a website in this day and age, you are dead to me!!!

Glad to be here. I've actually been lurking for awhile,
just ain't had much to say....

October is annual month for me so I'll be taking Bravo Pop
apart here in the next couple of weeks. I might wait until
the last day of October and push the annual out to November.
That's when the weather usually turns to dog sh_t anyway....

I've looking for the five or six bolt wheels for awhile. Would appreciate a little direction here. Any one have something to tell me? Have the three-bolt clevelands now.
Thanks guys,
Kurt

Yo Kurt,

I want to say McCauley switched to the 5-bolt wheel sometime
in the mid to late 1970s. After that came "Cessna-crafted McCauleys".
There are some that are more desireable than others, and I have
to admit I can't remember the details... I'll have to take a 6-pack
of beer over to my IA/buddy and drill him with questions, as he has it
all down pat.... but I seem to remember something to the tune of
the Cessna-crafted McCauleys are less desireable than the earlier
(McCauley-built) wheels.

Funny how libations pry the information from all but the tightest of minds. Of course we are involved with these damn machines because our minds are not tight! My IA parts with info with the wine. Ah the secrets!

I've got an old Northern Pilot magazine with a Gar Aero ad (907-299-1367, no website info). Sez a set of wheel adapters plus 850 X 10 tires/tubes are $1500. A set of adapters plus 29 X 11 X 10 tires (smooth or rib tread) are $2000. These are 5 year old prices.
Doesd anyone know the current prices, and how they stack up against Bushwheels? And how do the quality of the two compare?
Ain't none of them cheap. You can go places with the fatties that you can't with 850's, but if you don't go them places, remember that a pair of McCreary Airtrac 850's will only cost you about $350 including tubes.
You can always pull the power back a bit if the tires aren't draggy enough to get you into the double-digits!
And don't forget the fat Bushwheel or GarAero tailwheel!

Eric

I have a pair of Gar-Areo 850x10's. I measured them-they are 24" tall and 12" wide. I allso have the Gar-Aero tailwheel-it's 5" wide and 10" tall. I sent an approved 337 on another airplane and another for my airplane and Reno FSDO rejected it. The mains are STC'd. So I have the 600x6 with wheelpants for speed-got 155ktas today-or I have a pair of 850x6 with double pucks-or I have the Gar's. Don't know the speed penalty yet because I havn't put on other than the 6.00x6 because of the cry-baby feds. I might consider selling the Gar mains when I see what they do to the speed. They look like they cost 20 knots.
Dave

Without flex brake lines down at the wheel, seems like you'd have to pull the wheel off just to replace brake linings.Unless you want to unhook the brake lines, & have to rebleed them. Not that big a deal to pull the wheel, but it seems like flex's would be a good idea.

Eric

When I bought the yellow peril, I had 8.00's on it. I switched to the 8:50's a year later. Bouncy on the landings! But, that being said, I can go into all but the roughest fields I care to go into and do just fine. Beaches, gravel and a number of places I probably should have not been into but they did just fine. I won't try big rocks but the rest is OK. I also have the double puck Clevelands. Never say never Zane, get the big brakes. Weight increase is nominal, you will never want for brake if you need it. I can trim at least 100' (or there abouts) feet off my landings if I want with a lot of brake. You won't be sorry.

Boy Zane, we love this topic. If you could cash in all these bits you'd have a very merry Christmas indeed.
So here are my two bits. 8.00's and 8.50's don't really wear that fast unless you run real low tire pressure. I had both on my Pacer at various times and actually got better wear out of the 8.50's. At 13-15 psi I am comfortable with baseball to softball sized rocks, and our rocks are sharp down here. (As opposed to river rocks.)
I have had luck with my FSDO when it come to tires. There is an AC out there regarding "tundra" tires and an FAA advisory letter that gives inspectors guidance on approving oversized tires. If you want I'll get you the specifics. The guy I work with just gave me tenative approval to install the Goodyear 26X 10.5-6.00 tires on 5PL, pending some flight tests. I used the same process to put 8.50's onthe Pacer with minimal difficulty.
Still the 8.50 is all you'll ever need if you are landing on any kind of prepared strip.

Hey Zane!

Congrats on your purchase! Great advise from Jr.Cubbuilder (and others too). I started out with Cleveland (single puck) and 700x6s. I was happy everywhere I went except a couple of the softer dirt strips in Central/Southern Utah. I now have 800x6s and still the same brakes. Braking action is adaquate, but probably will go to double puck Clevelands someday. I have always had 180 gear legs. The only disadvantage is that wheel landings (especially on asphalt) require a lot of practice and finesse... Those 180 legs are stiff! Either that or I just suck at wheel landings. Probably a combo of both.

A side note... Still waiting for my bird to exit the paint shop. We're on the home stretch, but I have missed the best flying up north this year (again).

Matt

Kurt,
Are your brakes the 199-62 kit? The Bushwheel STC requires those wheels and brakes, so That's what I bought. The more bolts the better though. Does the M4 TC allow the five and six bolt wheels?
By the way know I've heard of Yellow Peril before, but can't place it. Is it a war reference? Typhoid? It's too cool a name not to have a story.

I'll have to do a little digging in the log books to get the numbers for you but I believe that they are a Cessna setup for the 180/185 series.
The "Yellow Peril" thing came from my neighbor in the hangar next to me. Mac is 85 and started flying when was 52 and quit drinking. He was an Alaskan fisherman and figured he needed another vice after the drink. He has about 6000 hrs. His current planes are a 1937 Taylor craft and a Kolb ultralight. You gotta meet this guy. he's great. I will try to find the origin of the name. Seems to me there is something out there though. Doug, are you going to Google this? You come up with some great stuff!
I have three bolt wheels and I know that a bunch of the older 180's have the six-bolt set up. I ran into a Maule in Idaho that broke two of the three bolts this summer. I didn't think it was possible but hey, I don't know shit. Ask anyone! I tossed the hub caps for that reason, I want to see everything on my preflight.

Thanks, jmtgt. My extraneous surfing has been OBE (overcome by events!) lately. Finally figured out how to upload pics to my own album and than was embarassed to see them all over the homepage as "recent uploads". They really aren't "backcountry material"... Just so happy to have a little progress and put some stuff together.

Matt

I always thought that "Yellow Peril" referred to the Japanese Empire of WWII. After watching Kurt's "oh shit" landing a few weeks back I've realized who and what it really refers to.

Oohhh!