With the GFC500, you can install the yaw damper later at about the same cost as doing it all at once.

I’m going to start out without it, and probably add it later.

What’s the YD kit weigh?

Not much.

Ross put in the YD.

Trust me. It makes a difference

MW

Good to know. In a Cirrus they are nice but not necessary. I thought with the bigger tail and rudder trim on the 185, I wouldn’t miss it too much.

What part about having it is most helpful?

Keeping the tail from sliding around in bumps?

Holding the rudder in during climbs and turns?

Does it hold the ball in the center for you while hand flying automatically above 200’? (Newer cirrus’s do this, and it seems to be preventing people from spinning them on sloppily flown base to finals)

Ross,

YD only helps with the AP engaged. See previous posts, the ball is always centered, climb, turns, approaches etc. I like the fact when flying a long cross country with a big crosswind the AP will crab and keep the wings level. Easier to maintain a good fuel balance.

I'm very glad I installed the YD on my airplane.

MW

I didn’t install the YD on my 180. My ball is centered most of the time on its own, especially in cruise. Could always go without it and install it after the fact if you decide you want it.

So Pirep on the GFC500 in the 185 so far.

When parts where ordered, I didn’t order a yaw damper last December.

Autopilot is absolutely awesome and nailed everything on procedure turns and approches, with a little help from my feet.

It’s 100x better than nothing as is, and I could live without the Yaw Damper, but it would be even better with one.

So I’ll be getting a YD next winter.

I’ll report back when it’s on floats.

Ross,

I'm glad you are happy with the AP. Play with the VNAV function sometime if you have not already. It is a very very capable AP for sure.

MW

I think since I have a 430W and not a GTN, the VNAV won’t work.

I’ll probably upgrade to a GTN650xi eventually

You are correct. You will need a 650xi or more to utilize VNAV. Regardless I'm glad you are happy with your set up.

MW

185Midwest wrote:You are correct. You will need a 650xi or more to utilize VNAV. Regardless I'm glad you are happy with your set up.

MW

VNAV works fine with OG GTN650. Xi not needed.

Thanks,

I meant 650 as minimum. I appreciate the correction.

MW

Can someone clarify exactly what is lost by having an older GNS430W verses a new GNS650? I'm exploring these options now for my 180 - and am not yet instrument rated so I don't quite understand the plusses and minuses. My understanding is that the 430 still allows LPV approaches with LNAV. Is that not VNAV? Is the limitations simply that an autopilot cannot fly the vertical guidance with a 430W but it could with 650? Or is there some other limitation with the type of approaches themselves (regardless of whether I have an autopilot) that can be flown?

I'm not going to install an autopilot yet but I'd like to know what my limitations and trade-offs would be. Trying to decide to go with an older 430W now that is in excellent condition versus dropping 5k more on a 650. In the future I'm hoping to do the G3X and eventually the GFC500 autopilot but don't want to do it all at once.

I'd refer you to Garmin for those questions to get the truth data. That is the best source you can have to make educated decisions.

MW

Go ahead with the 430W and the GFC500. The only feature you’ll be missing is VNAV. VNAV is a way to fly a STAR. It will descend your airplane from a given altitude and arrive at the next waypoint at a specified altitude, and specified altitudes at subsequent waypoints as well, until the glide slope or glide path is intercepted, where more typical pitch commands are commenced.

Another way: with the 430W it will fly the horizontal and vertical guidance on any GPS, localizer, or ILS. In the transition from cruise to approach you’ll have to tell it to descend at a chosen rate of FPM or specify an airspeed. You manage the descent in your brain. It does less of the calculating for you.

The GTN series of navigators calculates a vertical path between waypoints in your flight plan and flys that path. It recalculates as it goes and adjusts pitch to compensate for variables to stay on the path.

In real life I’ve set up the VNAV to have me arrive at a suitable altitude to transition into an approach, and it’s very satisfying to watch it all executed precisely. Reality is I’m unlikely to ever fly a full STAR into a controlled airport all the way to a full approach and landing. More likely I’ll be vectored to an approach or offered a shortcut that will take me off a STAR. I have to hold short of calling it a cool gimmick to save face having spent all the dollars to make this work in what is typically a gentleman’s private toy bush-plane on floats, not even an executive transport.

Well I'm asking a garmin dealer, but I don't really know they are any better than a car salesman. I looked online to try to schedule a 1:1 with a garmin person directly for one of their pre-buy aviation consultations, and of course there are no appointments available for as far as the online calender goes into the future (end of may).

You guys seem convinced that it needs to be newer than a 650 to hook an autopilot up and have it fly vnav. I'd like to know where that info came from - I thought an autopilot would fly a coupled approach with a G5 or GI275 on any approach the GPS would handle. And the 430W does handle LNAV/VNAV approaches.

Here's a video which talks about VNAV with the 430/530.

Again the only function you will miss is VNAV as other poster stated. The 430W will fly an LPV APPR. An APPR is different than VNAV. The APPR mode of the GFC 500 follows a GPS vertical path from the FAF to mins. It also provides lateral guidance. Similar to an ILS but with GPS. The VNAV function is independent of the APPR mode.

You will have to utilize vertical speed to get yourself down the the FAF altitude at which point you can use the APPR mode to fly the LPV approach. Make sense?

MW

Pinecone wrote:Go ahead with the 430W and the GFC500. The only feature you’ll be missing is VNAV. VNAV is a way to fly a STAR. It will descend your airplane from a given altitude and arrive at the next waypoint at a specified altitude, and specified altitudes at subsequent waypoints as well, until the glide slope or glide path is intercepted, where more typical pitch commands are commenced.

Another way: with the 430W it will fly the horizontal and vertical guidance on any GPS, localizer, or ILS. In the transition from cruise to approach you’ll have to tell it to descend at a chosen rate of FPM or specify an airspeed. You manage the descent in your brain. It does less of the calculating for you.

The GTN series of navigators calculates a vertical path between waypoints in your flight plan and flys that path. It recalculates as it goes and adjusts pitch to compensate for variables to stay on the path.

In real life I’ve set up the VNAV to have me arrive at a suitable altitude to transition into an approach, and it’s very satisfying to watch it all executed precisely. Reality is I’m unlikely to ever fly a full STAR into a controlled airport all the way to a full approach and landing. More likely I’ll be vectored to an approach or offered a shortcut that will take me off a STAR. I have to hold short of calling it a cool gimmick to save face having spent all the dollars to make this work in what is typically a gentleman’s private toy bush-plane on floats, not even an executive transport.

This is an excellent answer to a common question. Thank you

Give me a call if you want on this. I’ve had a lot of Cirrus’s with 430W’s and a lot with GTN’s, and more with Avidynes.

The GTN does a heck of a lot more than a 430W besides approaches.

But as others have stated the two fly precision approaches the same besides VNAV.

I actually have a couple nice 430W’s available if you still want one. Racks, connector kits, antennas, everything.

But a 650 is definitely better.

Two one eight 404-0314

Ross