Hey guys,
New to the group and dig this site.

I am in my ppl training right now with around 25 hrs of flight in a c 150.

My question is, would a Cessna sky wagon 180 be a good first plane?

I know there are a ton of variables and training hours associated with a tg, but I really like the versatility of the 180/185.

Please share your thoughts and opinions


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Insurance would not be your friend.

It’s a lot of airplane to fly even in experienced hands.

If you do, spend a lot, and I mean a LOT of time with a competent, experienced CFI.


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Welcome. The Air Force once started students in airplanes with no wings. I wasn't able to find one with no wings, but I liked to start students in old, low powered, and ugly tailwheel airplanes for the same reason. It helps to be the sole manipulator of the controls before solo. Use dynamic proactive rudder to keep the yellow taxi line exactly between your toes before trying to take off. That is what the wingless airplane was all about. Reaction to the start of ground loop is too late, the instructor will be on the controls. Until you have seen one, ground loop is a myth. Get the instructor to show you a slow one and then remember that slow equals no damage while fast equals total damage,

A friend of mine got his ppl on a 172 then went directly to a 185 as his first plane. Had a great tailwheel instructor and never looks back. Definitely doable as Contact stated just get a really good instructor.

It’s doable. I started from scratch in a180

Almost anything is "doable", expectations and timelines will need to be adjusted accordingly.

There is no black magic involved in learning to fly a Cessna 180. Go for it. It flies like a truck.

Patty Wagstaff did her primary training in a 180. Maybe it made her who she is!

Or maybe you have to have that kind of talent to pull it off........

180 was my first plane. Still have it and I never regret the choice.

As has been said, talk to an insurance agent. It is highly likely that you will not be able to get insurance at all, if that is a consideration. Many pilots in AK go bare, but if you go that route, don't skimp on lots of hours of good instruction.

Ross

In early 2017 at age 25, I bought a C180 as my first airplane with 120 hours total time and an instrument rating. It was the best decision I've made in aviation - it propelled me into aviation more than I could have dreamed. Took me from a PPL to now working in remote alaska as a pilot, doing real (aka for money) off-airport, floats, etc. It was a steep learning curve but no bent metal.

Could another airplane have done the same? Probably, however I gained much respect from having so many hours in C180 early on in my flying career and has opened many doors. A C150 or similar would not have done the same. I sold it when I became a professional pilot because I wanted to lower the expenses. I still have first dibs on buying it back when the current owner sells.

IF you can truly afford one (operating expenses, insurance, etc), why not? However, truly affording one isn't to be taken lightly.

First day of ownership:


Last day of ownership:

I bought a Cessna 170 that I did most of my PPL training in, then flew it for a year to build hours. Sold it and moved up to a 180. For me, it was quite valuable and sure helped on insurance costs when I could show I had 300-ish hours in a tail dragger..

But with that said, you could certainly start with a 180 like many have said.

I learned to fly last year in a taildragger (Rans S-20) and it was not a big deal. Is an S-20 a C-180? Nope, but learning in a taildragger is not tough. Solo’ed in 11.5 and got my Sport Pilot certificate at 31.5 hours. Fly a S-21 now, it is a lot different from the 21, faster and a lot tougher to slow down initially, but you can do it.

BTW, expect to get killed on the insurance, but flying is worth it

My daughter did all her PPL work in an M5 Maule. She also flew my C180 as a soloed student. Never any problems with either one as she had a great tailwheel instructor and we are lucky to know a tailwheel friendly DPE.
She now at 500 hours or so flies the C180 regularly.
Best thing we ever did for her flying.
Only issue I see is insurance. Insurance on her as a student was tough in the Maule, but doable. Even better in C180 for some reason. Both were high, but the results were worth it.
I would buy a C180 as a low time pilot in a minute as long as you can afford it.

Everyone talks about insurance, but when I first bought my 180 I had only 67 hours of tailwheel. And all but 2.5 of that was in a little homebuilt. I had about 160 total time, insurance with a $90k hull value was $2100 per year. At the 1st renewal that stayed the same as I increased the hull value to $120k, the next year the renewal went down to $1800. I don't think that is too bad. An instrument rating and a float rating did not change the cost any. I'm now at about 550 tailwheel with about 370 of those in the the 180.
Its part of the game, I just pay it and forget about it. Its what I like to do and thats all that matters.

Im a 500 hr pilot with all the ratings and I still fly a land-o-matic. Maybe my problem is that I didnt switch to a tailwheel soon enough as some people here have suggested; however, I definitely think there are going to be more 'no fly' days if you go 180. I like to do cross country trips and even flew my 182 to the Bahamas from Colorado once. On trips like that, you cant pretend youre going to find favorable winds all the time. Just the other day I picked up a straight tail 182 in Oklahoma and it was gusting to 35 knots 90 degrees across the runway. Id never flown the plane before and every other runway within 2 hours flying was the same orientation. It was a 182 and I was able to take off, point it west, fly for 3 hours until I got to a somewhat more favorable landing situation. 25 knots at 60 degrees i think. Anyway, my point is that it is nice (especially if youre a new pilot) to not have to stress about those situations. There is a lot of other things to be concentrating on during your first few hundred hours in a plane. Just my .02. Maybe Id be a better pilot if I started on a 180. Maybe I'd also have a fat bill from that ground loop I'd probably have... No idea..

Yes, tailwheel may force slow short final and angle across in severe crosswind. Not that 180 or any tailwheel would make you a better pilot, it would simply force using the rudder properly on takeoff and landing. The nose gear airplane can be landed slightly crooked or in a slight coordinated turn without ground looping at high speed, which means totaled hull now days. Engine too unless prop is wooden. Should coordinated turns on short final be made in the nose gear airplane: No. It is poor rudder control for longitudinal alignment in either airplane. Dynamic proactive rudder movement will bracket the target/centerline and therefore maintain exact longitudinal alignment and also wing level or stabilized bank into crosswind in either airplane.

I have wanted a 180 for decades and probably could afford one, but when I really crunch the numbers and realize how often I need the capability of more than 2-seats, I don't see the advantage of the added expense for the few times I would really use it's load hauling and speed.

A few months ago I was looking at a 180 valued at $160K . The insurance was double what I am currently paying. The fuel burn and additional expenses of what I am used to, was going to be considerably more also. With 350+ TW the insurance quote was $2800. Not that bad considering the current rate increases on aircraft, especially TW. Other TW aircraft valued at $65K were under $1500. My 172 is $500 for $35K value.

If you can afford it, by all means, live your dream!

I never could afford the extra cost of tailwheel other than spray plane, but I started in them and rented them when they were ugly and cheap and I trained a lot of people in them. Many old ones were neglected and rented cheap. I did not question the looks much and there were no logs. I rented a Champ 7AC for $3.00 per hour wet (auto gas.) When I needed to go far, I rented a Tri-Pacer for $10.00 per hour wet.

A 180 is not a 180. The early models are much lighter, lighter on the controls, and have good forward visibility. They are like an overpowered 170 and docile. The late models are heavy, have a high panel, and fly the same as a 185. They are trucky and tough but not forgiving if you do not mind the tail.