Nathan K. Hammond wrote:

M6RV6 wrote:Takes about 2 minutes to shut down because you have to purge the oil out of the crankcase to the tank with the prop pulled all the way out. You have to start them the same way with the prop pulled all the way out so that the engine gets all the oil pressure first, when it comes up then push the prop in.

Can you elaborate on that??? All the local 190/195 guys do this, but no other radial operators do. So who's right or is this a 190/195 specific operation?

nkh

I've seen T-6 pilots follow similar shutdown procedures, and they've told me it's for the same reasons as described above.

Eric

It has to do with the prop and the Jacobs engine. I know you don't have to with a 985.
When you start you want your first oil pressure to go to the engine.
It is a dry sump engine
If you have lots of excess oil in the crankcase when you shut down, it will go by the rings and settle below the pistons on the bottom 2 cylinders. If you do that then you have a very good chance of a Hydraulic lock and bending parts and ruining your day.
You also should find your #1 blade and park it TDC on compression for #4 cyl., That puts the #5 piston at TDC on the exhaust stroke so that both pistons are at the (top/bottom) of there stroke so that it has the smallest volume for oil to collect.
If you do this you have less chance for damage and of wet starts. Which means a lot less cleaning!!
You have a scavenge pump for the crankcase to pump oil to your tank then a pressure pump for oil pressure to lube the engine,
Hope this helps.
Even with the little bit of special idiosyncrasy's, they are a great Aircraft to fly!
Like all aircraft of that vintage you can get into and land very easily in a place you will never take off in!!!
Have fun GT

Dokmow wrote:

This B-eautiful airplane was at JC during the flyin last summer. It is immaculate! There was another one there, not quite as nice, but not many are.

This might be the other 195 at JC?? I believe this picture was taken during the 180/185 Fly In this last summer of 2009. Looks pretty nice, though.

Sounds like the insurance company only wants to insure simple stuff, perhaps 195's have a ground loop reputation because some people who buy them as the saying goes,' have more $ than brains.' Raise the seat up with cushions 'til head is on glass, pump up the tail wheel strut, fine visibility. Get 10 hours in a Luscombe, or C-120/140' or T-6, 'til really tail wheel proficient, then try one out. I had one, put on Cleveland's, great plane.

Not everyone is meant to be a pilot!

I fly into Goodland, KS from KFTG for breakfast periodically - There is a guy there that constantly has 190/195's in there for rebuild - Every time I'm there, I stop in and look at his collection. Cool airplanes, for sure...

Jim

Saw this at Oshkosh this year...had to reel back in my drooling tongue

Last years (2012) Grand Champion, I believe.

An owner of one of these machines would do well to find a good mechanic proficient in this/these particular aircraft/engines. I believe they partially get their reputation as "maintenance hogs" from owners who use "generalist" mechanics not well versed in their idiosyncrasies...

I have seen it "more than once" on this and other unique aircraft-and automobiles.

$.02
lc

mnewb1 wrote:Saw this at Oshkosh this year...had to reel back in my drooling tongue

Beautiful.

Sorry for the necropost....

How does visibility of a 195 compare in-flight to a 180?

Av8or2Skier wrote:Sorry for the necropost....

How does visibility of a 195 compare in-flight to a 180?

I have never flown a 180 but the 195 is not a plane for site seeing. small side windows a huge round engine ( top of cowl is well about horizon in level flight) makes you do your approach with your head on the side window to be able to see the runway.

M6RV6 wrote:It has to do with the prop and the Jacobs engine. I know you don't have to with a 985.
When you start you want your first oil pressure to go to the engine.
It is a dry sump engine
If you have lots of excess oil in the crankcase when you shut down, it will go by the rings and settle below the pistons on the bottom 2 cylinders. If you do that then you have a very good chance of a Hydraulic lock and bending parts and ruining your day.
You also should find your #1 blade and park it TDC on compression for #4 cyl., That puts the #5 piston at TDC on the exhaust stroke so that both pistons are at the (top/bottom) of there stroke so that it has the smallest volume for oil to collect.
If you do this you have less chance for damage and of wet starts. Which means a lot less cleaning!!
You have a scavenge pump for the crankcase to pump oil to your tank then a pressure pump for oil pressure to lube the engine,
Hope this helps.
Even with the little bit of special idiosyncrasy's, they are a great Aircraft to fly!
Like all aircraft of that vintage you can get into and land very easily in a place you will never take off in!!!
Have fun GT

Also proper procedure with a Hanilton Standard prop on a R 985. In that case, it simply retracts the propeller piston into the hub, and protects it from corrosion. Get some corrosion on that piston and it may cut the O ring on the piston, and all your oil goes on your windshield......unless you've done a proper post maint. flight, and verified that the plane will maintain level flight with the prop in full coarse pitch.

MTV

Am comparing a VFR, Butterfly rebuilt 195 with a 185B project. In terms of capital cost there is still a significant advantage for the 195, and presumably the Jacobs overhaul cost is still below a Continental 0-470 (the 185B had the fuel injected -470).

The difference in empty weight is significant. Around 1800 lbs for a light 185 and 2150-2200 lbs for the 195, which combined with the lack of semi-fowler flaps implies the 195 is needing around 50% more landing distance available?

Not sure which of the two types are better at holding value, with some 185s being advertised for $300k, am guessing the 185. The 195 seem to trade between $60-120k. There was a time it was so unfashionable you could buy them for less than a Tri-Pacer.

With proper maintenance of landing gear and tailwheel am told the ground handling of the 195 is acceptable. An early Flying magazine review described handling as excellent, am guessing poor maintenance and poor tailwheel experience caused the spike in ground looping of the type in the 1970s and 1980’s.

Looking at these 195's is cool. I have this picture of one hanging on my wall:



What is amazing about this shot is:

1. It's a cessna 195.
2. It's on floats.
3. It's on lake hood
4. There is aurora over head.
5. That can be seen through the light pollution in Anchortown.
6. That is reflecting off of an open lake.
7. There is no snow anywhere.

Super unique shot. The photographer said he used his headlamp to light paint the airplane over a 6 second exposure.

You can buy your own here.

That is a spectacular photo, calendar girl in the making

Mapleflt

Nathan K. Hammond wrote:

M6RV6 wrote:Takes about 2 minutes to shut down because you have to purge the oil out of the crankcase to the tank with the prop pulled all the way out. You have to start them the same way with the prop pulled all the way out so that the engine gets all the oil pressure first, when it comes up then push the prop in.

Can you elaborate on that??? All the local 190/195 guys do this, but no other radial operators do. So who's right or is this a 190/195 specific operation?

nkh

I was taught to do this with a Hamilton Standard prop on a Beaver that parked outdoors, but the reason (at least on that airplane) was to retract the large center piston in the prop back into the hub, to prevent corrosion on that piston. That piston seals against a rather thin O Ring, and any corrosion on that piston can cut that O Ring, at which point, your engine oil starts departing the engine. That is easy enough to address: pull the prop lever all the way back to coarse pitch.

Oh, and you have verified that you can maintain altitude using flaps, etc with that prop at coarse pitch? If you can’t, you need to get the blade stops changed so you can.

I don’t know if the 195 prop is similar.

MTV