I searched the forum and got some info that was useful, but I'm hoping for more specifics. I've got a '73 C182P with LR tanks. The right tank developed a major leak and I was able to determine the aft fuel outlet boss was cracked and rotten.

I removed the bladder yesterday after 3 hours of hell that made me regret the day I was born to fly this damned airplane and wonder what the Cessna engineers were smoking. It was an FFC fuel cell manufactured in 10/2005. It was installed in 8/2006 along with the left bladder (which had better be in MINT friggen condition, or else this airplane is going to be up for sale!)

My question is whether I should call FFC with my hat in my hand, begging for a good repair/replacement deal or find a better product? If the latter, what replacement bladder comes the most highly recommended? I would very much like to outlive a fuel bladder.

This DIY stuff is highly overrated. I'm already helping a buddy get a basket case '61 C182 (with an unknown aged 0 SMOH engine) back to airworthy status that he "stole" for $15K. New carb airbox was $4,000, and after pouring fuel into a wing, and subsequently onto the ground, a $4,100 fuel selector is next. It just gets better and better!

Send the bladder to Hartwig. Overhaul shoul be $500. FYI... It's easier to get the bladder out if you pull the wing, but that's a much longer post.

I have used Aero Tech in Santa Fe Springs several times since 1974. I find their quality of material and construction excellent. They also do repairs.

You can find them in Trade - A Plane ads.

Rich

I bought a brand new bladder for my buddies 185 for $800 from Eagle 2-3 years ago. They can also tell you if yours is worth overhauling. They like certain cores and others are junk.

I am not familiar with FFT, but eagle gives a 10 year warranty IIRC. Can you check with the manufacturer?

I'd talk to the manufacturer first. If bladders only lasted six or seven years, there'd be a lot of A&P mechanics out there changing careers. In fact they should last well over twenty years and more.

First question I'd ask, though: Was this a new or overhauled bladder?

MTV

born2flyak wrote:
This DIY stuff is highly overrated. I'm already helping a buddy get a basket case '61 C182 (with an unknown aged 0 SMOH engine) back to airworthy status that he "stole" for $15K. New carb airbox was $4,000, and after pouring fuel into a wing, and subsequently onto the ground, a $4,100 fuel selector is next.

Spending $4K on a new carb airbox is definitely not the DIY spirit. Spending one long day with the 43.13, a drill press, file, rivet gun and sheet metal, to save four grand, is the DIY spirit

However, once it's all done you will have one hell of a good capable airplane.

EZFlap wrote:

born2flyak wrote:
This DIY stuff is highly overrated. I'm already helping a buddy get a basket case '61 C182 (with an unknown aged 0 SMOH engine) back to airworthy status that he "stole" for $15K. New carb airbox was $4,000, and after pouring fuel into a wing, and subsequently onto the ground, a $4,100 fuel selector is next.

Spending $4K on a new carb airbox is definitely not the DIY spirit. Spending one long day with the 43.13, a drill press, file, rivet gun and sheet metal, to save four grand, is the DIY spirit

However, once it's all done you will have one hell of a good capable airplane.

Well the airplane was bought as-is and came with hoses, wires, nuts, bolts, and other parts piled in totes and boxes. No airbox, no oil pan, no generator (we installed a Plane Power alternator).

Anyhow, the bladder I removed had been repaired before, I assume by Hartwig since their sticker is on the wings. Floats and Fuel Cells is the manufacturer, I will check with both places for overhaul quotes.

Manufactured in 05, or repaired? I would also make sure they were installed properly with new tape because that is very important. I recently installed an eagle fuel cell in a t210 that had previously been repaired, but was not taped properly when it was installed.
If you buy new, I'd definitely recommend going with eagle. Super fast shipping and their bladders are way easier to install than the other guys.
Not to be a Debbie Downer or anything, but the fun hasn't even started yet. Just wait until you clean and re-tape the bladder compartment. Those clips in the far corners can be a blast when you put the new bladder in (at least with extended range bladders).

I'm curious why it is easier to remove with the wing off...not because I doubt it, but because it might come in handy...any tips?

lesuther wrote:I'm curious why it is easier to remove with the wing off...not because I doubt it, but because it might come in handy...any tips?

Because you remove rivets from inboard rib, and can now reach in the end of the wing root to remove the clips that hold the bladder to the top and bottom of the wing, and to re-attach them.

With the wing on the plane, you have to reach in through inspection covers and the fuel ports to remove/reattach those stinking clips. And removal is easier than re-attachment.

MTV

Was the nipple in a bind where it came out of the wing? I like Eagle but still have an issue. The gas gauge and the quick drain are solid on their position and the first bladder I got last Fall for my slant tank 180 had problems with both the vent and the outlet nipples being in a bind. Sent it back and the second worked for the outlet but the vent still is bent around the corner so the bladder is away from the butt rib about an inch. If I enlarged the hole in the butt rib it would solve the problem but I'm not removing any metal. I should get motivated and pull it out again and get it moved ahead about 3/8ths of an inch. I like Eagle since their's is resistant to ethanol. I feel like a pro on removing and installing slant tanks but worry about corrosion from my sweat-----need an air conditioned hangar.

The bladder had 10/05 for Manufacture date. It has patches on the outlet bosses and a large round patch inside it on the bottom as well. I didn't notice the nipples being in a bind, though the hardest part was removing the vent nipple from the line at the root. Also when removing the fuel level sending unit I considered removing the wing, with a sawzall.

I have no idea how I'll get the vent line reattached at the root. Reaching the snaps was easy, I'm 6'3" and can reach every corner with length to spare between the two access holes in the wing. I removed all the snaps and reattached a few just to see how bad of a job that would be. I came to the conclusion that reattaching all the snaps would be the easy part.

I'm not an A&P but have been working under the supervision of one for the last 7 years doing just about everything on Pipers and Cessnas, but this is my first (and last) bladder replacement. Thanks for the advice guys!

Can't you pull the fairing from between the cabin and wing and get someone to hold the vent line solid while you push the nipple on from the inside?

On cenna pilots assoc. Web site there a r/h 185 fuel cell for sale for $700 bucks long range tank .

I hate it when my nipples get in a bind.

My first guess would be.

Ruling out your nipple being in a bind

Mogas with alcohol in it.

Makes the rubber crack.

Saving a few bucks on an overhauled fuel cell also is not worth it. The new ones are way easier to install (rubber softer). Plus they will last longer.

Ruling out your nipple being in a bind

OK, I'm not the best with words. What I meant was that the center of the nipple is in line with the back edge of the hole in the butt rib. By bending it ahead 45 degrees, the nipple came through the hole and I could get the alumium cross vent line on but "in a bind" is still the best description I can come up with. I assume in time that butt rib is going to try and shear the nipple.

Before you fit the replacement cell warm it in the sun for a couple hours, makes it nice and flexible. Replace all the tape in the cavity unless it's near new. And use Dow Corning DC4 on the nipples. They'll go on heaps easier and come off heaps easier in 20 years time! But wipe off the excess, it's not fuel soluble. Use an appropriately sized diameter and length aluminium tube to help push the nipples over the vent and outlet tubes, obviously make sure the ends are smooth and taped. Saves your armpits and finger tips!

And make sure two people inspect the tank for debris prior to putting the covers on. I once rescued a 180 from a field following a fuel cell replacement at another maintenance shop. Found a roll of tank tape, two blocks of wood and a length of steel tube in the cell...

A piece of foam or similar on top of the wing makes it a little more comfortable to lie on as well It's not that bad a job! Better than resealing Metro wing tanks!! Or changing 16 separate cells in an Shrike!!

I ordered a cell from Eagle, the 10 year warranty had me sold. It was also about $50 cheaper than a new cell from FFC.

I changed a wing sump on my friend's project 182 this morning, had to undo some snaps and the aft fuel outlet. It wasn't terribly hard, but far from easy. Having a borescope to attach the snaps again sure helps. His fuel bladder was manufactured in 1988 and had some apparent repairs in the past, but seemed in decent condition considering it sat for many years without fuel.

He's also got the killer caps installed, and the umbrella-style Cessna caps I found were around $1,500 online. Does anyone know if the newer caps are a factory option or an STC?

180Marty wrote:Can't you pull the fairing from between the cabin and wing and get someone to hold the vent line solid while you push the nipple on from the inside?

Bingo. Remove the wing root fairing. Also remove the headliner above the pilot's door. Getting the fuel supply and vent lines back in is a two man job. One to push; one to back up. I changed an LR tank with my A&P a month ago. Well, he did 90% of the work. I just held on and backed things up where and when he said. He knocked it out in about 6 hours. He had done one a few months ago on a 210, and everything went right, so I think 6 hours is about as fast as it can be done. Having someone familiar with the process is a huge plus. The Cessna Pilots Association has a good tech note on replacing bladders. The tip on aligning the gaskets for the fuel sender is particularly useful.

The only downside is that the headliner doesn't take too kindly to being undone and then stuffed back into the little teeth that hold it above the pilots door. Mine looks like mice live up there now. The only way I can think of to avoid that is to replace the headliner. I'm a glutton for punishment, but I have my limits. The headliner stays.

CAVU