In case anyone needs it... I sent Zzz the STC to run Cleveland 199-62 "double puck" breaks on the 180/185 for the knowledge base.

STC SA63GL

Is there a separate STC fir very tire size Greg? I find it interesting that they specify only 8.00x6s.

You'll note that the STC references two Cleveland installation drawings, #50-36 & #20-128.
Did you send them to Zane also? If not, I have copies.
Unfortunately they're 11x17 and I can only scan up to 8-1/2 x 11.
But I can scan each as two 8-1/2 x 11's and email them in, if need be.

A1Skinner wrote:Is there a separate STC fir very tire size Greg? I find it interesting that they specify only 8.00x6s.

The STC was so old that 8.00x6 were considered huge tires. LOL

This will get the brakes on. The STC for 8.5x6 or bigger would be separate.

Bigrenna wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:Is there a separate STC fir very tire size Greg? I find it interesting that they specify only 8.00x6s.

The STC was so old that 8.00x6 were considered huge tires. LOL

This will get the brakes on. The STC for 8.5x6 or bigger would be separate.

Awesome. Thanks.

A1Skinner wrote:

Bigrenna wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:Is there a separate STC fir very tire size Greg? I find it interesting that they specify only 8.00x6s.

The STC was so old that 8.00x6 were considered huge tires. LOL

This will get the brakes on. The STC for 8.5x6 or bigger would be separate.

Awesome. Thanks.

Use the F.Atlee letter to install 8.5x6 tires. The new Desser 8.5x6 4 ply smoothies are perfect for this application.

http://www.fadodge.com/images/pdf_files/FAA_8.50_tire_on_cessna_aircraft.pdf

It's worth noting that the linked letter says
"the installation of 8.50x6, 4 ply tires on the original main gear wheels of Cessna 180 series, 182 series, and 185 series is satisfactory."
For those that like to nitpick, it does not appear to approve installation on after-market (aka Cleveland) wheels, or 6 ply tires.
FWIW I haven't seen a 1950's C180 with original wheels in a long time, and I've never seen a 4-ply 850x6 tire.
Whether Ceveland wheels and 6 ply tires are close enough to what that letter approves is something you might consider.
I think they'd be fine, but your IA or some FAA inspector might not.

hotrod180 wrote:and I've never seen a 4-ply 850x6 tire.

The Desser 8.50x6 smoothies are 4-ply.

OK, i guess i have seen 4ply 850s before after all.
Thanks for the reminder.

So I bought a set of reconditioned Double puck Cleveland’s from my mechanic to put on the ‘58 182 I’m purchasing. I want to use 8.00x6 tires. Do I need an STC for the brakes and/or the tires?

Phil

BirdyinBOI wrote:...to put on the ‘58 182 I’m purchasing. I want to use 8.00x6 tires. Do I need an STC for the brakes and/or the tires?

Phil

Phil, not sure how much you know, but this is actually a good exercise for any A/C owner. Forgive me if this stuff is familiar.

First place to start is the Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS.) This will give a broad view of some requirements to an aircraft.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/fae5dd92c6210c7286257ebd006029c5/$FILE/3A13_Rev_72.pdf

Next, you want to go to the A/C original Equipment List. This is where you will find the items both required and offered as an option when it was certified. You will also find the breaks, instruments, even things like skis. For example, my 180 came with 600xx6 tires with single puck breaks. There was an option for 800x6 with single pucks, but no option for 8.5x6. This means I could run the 800x6, but not the dbl pucks. To do this, I would need an STC for the larger tire and or break.

STC means "supplemental type certificate." Which is what it says, a supplement to the original type cert.

There are a couple of STC's for larger tires on my bird, and all of them require the upgrade to double puck breaks. The rub is, they require it, but do not explicitly allow for their use. This is a case where the desire for one mod requires the owner to obtain a second STC. Sometimes things can get complicated.

If you wish to do a mod, but are not sure if an STC exists, the best place to go is FAA.gov. Here you can search by your make and peruse every STC that was ever available for that bird. This is actually a great exercise for every owner to do. The rub is that sometimes there are STC's that exist, but they are no longer available. In these cases, stalwart individuals attempt to hunt down the listed owners of the STCs and try to get them to reissue... http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... enFrameSet

One last thing you can do for a mod if there is in fact no STC available, is scour the internet for pictures or evidence of other airplanes that have the mod you seek installed. If you can find their N#, you can order the CD for all the records for that aircraft. With those, you can (hopefully) find the field approval paperwork that was approved to install the mod. (uphill battle these days) http://aircraft.faa.gov/e.gov/nd/

To address your original question, I believe you will need an STC to run both the 8.5x6 tires and the dbl puck breaks on your 182. I have seen cases where guys nay say the larger breaks, but for me, its a must. The difference between single and double are night and day... unless you are a 5000' guy who likes to let it roll out.

Im assuming you already knew this stuff, but it may help others.

Great info Bigrenna. Thanks so much. I knew about 1/3 of what you wrote so I definitely appreciate it! Others will too I’m sure.

Bigrenna wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:Is there a separate STC fir very tire size Greg? I find it interesting that they specify only 8.00x6s.

The STC was so old that 8.00x6 were considered huge tires. LOL

This will get the brakes on. The STC for 8.5x6 or bigger would be separate.

They are huge tires, huge tail wheel tires that is!

Bigrenna thanks for the great info, I just ordered our CD!

Our 1956 182 has 8.50x6 with single puck Clevlands on a 337 Field Approval from the 80’s. The Field Approval includes the Mains and Nose Tires and 206 Nose Fork. One of my overall goals with the airplane is to clean everything up including paperwork as we go. It does have excellent records complete back to day one. However as we complete additional modifications I want to keep things neat and clean. I am chasing a couple of issues right now and looking for some help;

1. The current configuration allows the tire sidewall to contact the brake caliper if the tire pressure is only a few PSI low and there is any flex and/or side load. Is there any reference to shimming that can help with this? I have read the article suggesting calling Alaska Bushwheel but have not called them because there shims are for 206/207. Although we just purchased the airplane, I have been around it for 20+ years and this is a new issue. My concern is when the brake pads were replaced at the last Annual something like a shim or spacer was left off.

2. I want to upgrade to a Double Puck but don’t want to chase STC’s around with the Field Approval. Currently it has Clevland Wheels and Goodyear 8.50’s. Is it possible to upgrade the brakes without having to match to a wheel and tire STC? If I can find a nice set of used brakes can they be Field Approved? Anyone have a set? Do the Double Puck use the same rotor as a Single? Also, I am not opposed to purchasing an STC that matches the Field Approval, I don’t know how that changed a Field Approval when the STC may only covers a portion of the FA.

Well that got a bit long winded but it’s what I am dealing with… Thanks for any input.

Speaking of tire/brake interference, I have double puck Clevelands on my 54 180 and afraid when I put new brake linings on, they are going to rub my 29 inch Bushwheels.

180Marty wrote:Speaking of tire/brake interference, I have double puck Clevelands on my 54 180 and afraid when I put new brake linings on, they are going to rub my 29 inch Bushwheels.

Do you have spacers Marty? I needed spacers on both my Citabria and my 180 when I went to 31s.

VTOSS wrote:Bigrenna thanks for the great info, I just ordered our CD!

Our 1956 182 has 8.50x6 with single puck Clevlands on a 337 Field Approval from the 80’s. The Field Approval includes the Mains and Nose Tires and 206 Nose Fork. One of my overall goals with the airplane is to clean everything up including paperwork as we go. It does have excellent records complete back to day one. However as we complete additional modifications I want to keep things neat and clean. I am chasing a couple of issues right now and looking for some help;

1. The current configuration allows the tire sidewall to contact the brake caliper if the tire pressure is only a few PSI low and there is any flex and/or side load. Is there any reference to shimming that can help with this? I have read the article suggesting calling Alaska Bushwheel but have not called them because there shims are for 206/207. Although we just purchased the airplane, I have been around it for 20+ years and this is a new issue. My concern is when the brake pads were replaced at the last Annual something like a shim or spacer was left off.

2. I want to upgrade to a Double Puck but don’t want to chase STC’s around with the Field Approval. Currently it has Clevland Wheels and Goodyear 8.50’s. Is it possible to upgrade the brakes without having to match to a wheel and tire STC? If I can find a nice set of used brakes can they be Field Approved? Anyone have a set? Do the Double Puck use the same rotor as a Single? Also, I am not opposed to purchasing an STC that matches the Field Approval, I don’t know how that changed a Field Approval when the STC may only covers a portion of the FA.

Well that got a bit long winded but it’s what I am dealing with… Thanks for any input.

Give Airframes Alaska a call. They sell double puck brakes for most Cessnas, and if they don’t have an STC for your plane, they can get you one from Atlee Dodge. They have STCs for double puck brakes on most Cessnas. They get ~$250 for the paperwork, which is a bargain in my opinion. If you’re buying brakes anyway, I’d just order them from Airframes....they make great stuff and their customer support is excellent. If you find a set of brakes refurbished, get the STC from Atlee Dodge.

MTV

MTV

I have a spacer for the brake caliper going together. Without it the brakes would be on all the time. I don't have a spacer between the brake disc and the wheel. That would help but then are those two pins too short. For me it looks like a new half worn out lining is the way to go. Ha Ha !!!

Well I called Airframes Alaska and they were excellent as usual. They share the same concern regarding the nose fork, wheels and tires being on the same 337. I also have the original 337 for just the nose fork and the narrative in the second 337 acknowledges it as follows;

Previous installed large tires on aircraft. Main tire 8.50x6 6ply, nose tire 7.00x6 6ply. Inspected installation wheels, wheel halfs, bearings and axle, brake system. Inspected installation of larger nose gear fork found on 337 dated 06-02-1994 Found to be working correctly and installed properly. Aircraft apparently has been in service since 06-02-1994 with these tire and wheels. Updated weight and balance.

I did get a copy of the Atlee Dodge STC and will look it over tonight. It's too bad the Free STC above doesn't include the 182 even though the gear is the same as the 180 on my 1956.

If I purchase the Atlee Dodge STC and new ABI Brakes and Wheels, I would assume it will supersede this 337, the nose gear will still be covered under the original 337 and all should be legal and good. Or am I overlooking anything?

VTOSS wrote:Well I called Airframes Alaska and they were excellent as usual. They share the same concern regarding the nose fork, wheels and tires being on the same 337. I also have the original 337 for just the nose fork and the narrative in the second 337 acknowledges it as follows;

Previous installed large tires on aircraft. Main tire 8.50x6 6ply, nose tire 7.00x6 6ply. Inspected installation wheels, wheel halfs, bearings and axle, brake system. Inspected installation of larger nose gear fork found on 337 dated 06-02-1994 Found to be working correctly and installed properly. Aircraft apparently has been in service since 06-02-1994 with these tire and wheels. Updated weight and balance.

I did get a copy of the Atlee Dodge STC and will look it over tonight. It's too bad the Free STC above doesn't include the 182 even though the gear is the same as the 180 on my 1956.

If I purchase the Atlee Dodge STC and new ABI Brakes and Wheels, I would assume it will supersede this 337, the nose gear will still be covered under the original 337 and all should be legal and good. Or am I overlooking anything?

Sounds good to me.

MTV