Looking for clothing/boots/gloves recommendations to keep warm while pre-flighting the airplane and hopefully not too bulky to prevent flying the airplane. Although we flew in single digits above zero during our training that would be as cold as I care to fly now.

I've got some insulated boots that are compact enough that I can still work the rudder pedals, perhaps I need some electric socks ?

How about some warm glove ideas, or do most of you wear mittens ?

Thanks for any ideas and links would be appreciated !

Single digits above zero?? You in Florida or Texas?

A good set of insulated coveralls was always my choice when flying cold. Carhartt makes great coveralls and insulated bibs, if you prefer those. Only problem with those that you find in most stores is they're not fire resistant, but those too are available.....bring $$. Not really necessary for most flying anyway.

I start with base layer of Nomex long johns, then wool pants and wool or cotton flannel shirt. A good wool vest, under the coveralls, and a down or fiber heavy overcoat which lives in the baggage compartment, and worn while preflighting or?

For boots, I always wore military surplus bunny boots, but those may be overkill for the temps you're talking about. That said, I always dress appropriate to survive in the weather I'm flying in. Importantly, I also require any passengers to dress appropriately as well.

Boots may be one of the toughest decisions you make. Bunny boots are not real comfy to wear, and some people hate them, but they WILL prevent your feet from freezing. I've spent a few days and nights out in very cold temps and bunny boots kept my feet warm. But good quality shoe packs worn over wool socks will keep your feet more comfortable and may be more appropriate for more moderate temps.

When I was flying wheels or there was no risk of stepping into water, I often wore military issue mukluks, with felt liners and a couple layers of good quality wool socks....toasty warm and inexpensive.

I wear light gloves all the time, and keep heavier gloves or mittens on a lanyard around my neck when it's really cold. Work or fly with the light gloves, then climb out and slip on the heavy ones as needed. Again, in milder temps, I may just wear heavier gloves full time, with big mittens in the baggage.

If you have to be outside for a while, I like to carry a few "heat packs" that I can open and slide into the palms of my hand inside gloves or mittens.

Cold or cool weather flying can be some of the nicest weather to fly in....smooth air, no T-Storms, etc. as long as you're prepared for it. Don't forget your survival gear as well. But that's another topic.

MTV

MTV's years in Alaska give him a lot of credibility on this topic. I dress in a similar way.

For those not averse to wearing wool, I highly recommend it. I wear wool long johns, wool pants and a wool shirt. That stuff is warm even when damp and is fairly resistant to flame. On my feet I prefer a pair of Steger mukluks with felt liners and wool socks - very light weight, warm and work well with snowshoes - but you don't want to get them wet. Bunny boots in the baggage compartment for use if there's any overflow.

I wear light nylon wind-pants and a light nylon shell jacket, adding a heavier-weight insulated jacket over the top in colder conditions. The down parka lives in the baggage compartment unless needed. I like a leather and fur hat that covers well, especially the ears of course.

One-piece insulated coveralls are also great (especially in deep-snow conditions) but are somewhat limiting as opposed to multiple layers/pieces when trying to adjust to particular conditions.

I wear light leather gloves, carry a thicker pair and have my wolf mitts (with "idiot strings") in the baggage.

For those of us who are a little on the ...uh...large side, and not as flexible as we once were, it's a bit of a challenge to be cozy warm and still be able to get into an airplane the size of a Super Cub.

Remember that you can't put on warm clothes that you don't have with you. You might be flying in minus 10 weather but later in the day find yourself in a survival situation at -30, having expended a lot of energy and perhaps with little food in your belly.

On the other hand, if you always follow roads and are never out of cell-phone range you might not need to dress quite so well.

Many years ago we wore caribou parkas, mitts and mukluks. Much warmer than any modern material but had to be treated with care. No pockets! Anyway, all the old Eskimo women who could make that stuff properly have now gone to the happy hunting ground.

By the way, electric seat heaters are fantastic, but may not be an option for certified aircraft.

Assuming you have an electrical system, you should look at some of the electrical clothing made for motorcycling. Aerostitch has a lot of it, as well as a bunch of other stuff that's well suited to pilots.

If you haven't used electric clothing before, it's just impossible to explain how much of a difference it makes. Regular clothing, no matter how insulated, only prevents the loss of heat. Electric clothing ADDS heat. It's a world of difference...if you've ever been cold while flying (or doing anything else close to a 12 volt outlet), the first time you use an electric vest you'll feel like a sucker for not having gotten one sooner. If you go that route, keep in mind that the electric garment has to be snug fitting and right next to your body, with only a light shirt underneath.

Obviously it's dependent on electricity...you need to be dressed so that if it fails you don't freeze. But NOTHING else will come close to making you feel toasty warm.

For a coat, look at the Feathered Friends down jackets. They are miles beyond any other down clothing I've ever seen in quality of construction and material. Pretty hard to get more warmth in less space than with down...very light, very easy to move around in. The nylon outer shell is definitely not fireproof, but there's a lot less nylon there than in a pile jacket, and down doesn't cary a fire very well. If you get one with a hood you can keep your head warm and not break the seal on your headset, which is nice.

Cold feet are usually caused by restricted circulation, so the looser your shoes are the better. I wear Neos Trekker overshoes with felt liners or really heavy wool socks. They are waterproof and have a ton of room for insulation...sort of a waterproof mukluk. The sole is thin enough that I can still get my feet under the dash, and the high tops of the overshoes give me a place to stash heavy mittens in case I have to leave the plane with only what I'm wearing.

I recently bought a pair of Woolrich Malone pants...the only ones I could find long enough. Those are HEAVY wool pants! Really nice, machine washable, and they come with suspender buttons which I quite like. Any sort of belt makes sitting less comfortable after a while.

For a base layer, I'm flat-out fanatical about Icebreaker merino wool clothing. It doesn't itch. It doesn't stink. It wears like iron. I've tried a half-dozen brands of merino wool, mostly because of how expensive Icebreaker stuff is, but I've never found anything that compares to it. Now when I see Icebreaker on sale I just buy it whether I need it or not. The first day I got a Icebreaker shirt was the last day I ever wore a synthetic base layer.

Well, everyone is a little different on cold tolerance. Here's what I wear. Note, that while I have Nomex gear (gloves, thermals, jackets, coveralls) these aren't what I prefer. I do wear a lot of wool items, but also synthetics. At -40 my main concern is preventing frost bite and staying warm. It's a risk I take. I realize you are only single digits, but take some of the warmer weather hints, and ignore the really cold stuff... enjoy that nice winter weather!

Gloves
Fox River Gripper glove - I get these on sale cheap (under $5) and they are my go to glove for every temperature all winter. Above zero, I'll put these under a leather work glove. I use these as my preflight glove liners. Then as my main glove when flying. They are light enough for dexterity but still provide warmth.

Leather work gloves - just a basic set of deer skin leather gloves sized up for the wool liner. I waterproof these in Sno Seal which makes the glove perfect for winter. I'll brush snow and fuel with these gloves and anything else that requires more utility gloves. While I've used expensive OR, Ibex, Mountain Hardwear gloves, those are really just "ski gloves" and I tear them up pretty easy.
https://www.amazon.com/Atsko-Sno-Seal-1330-Atsko-Sno-Seal-Original-Waterproofing-7-Ounce/dp/B00CQJDQ90/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481396624&sr=8-1&keywords=sno+seal

Kinco insulated gloves - once it gets too cold for just the leather/wool combo, I use an insulated Kinco glove. I haven't figured out my favorite, but I use and like these:
- Kinco 1938KWP -insulated reflective work glove, I got these for $4 a pair so I've been using these alot lately. They aren't as warm as some of the others, but I use them for preflight/fueling/loading at -40 and do fine. (About an hour of work)
https://www.amazon.com/1938KWP-L-1-Pigs ... co+1938KWP
- Kinco 1927KW - probably my favorite. Nice glove, similar to the other but a bit warm.
http://www.kinco.com/product/1927kw/
- Kinco 901 Ski Glove - I'm still breaking these in. When you use sno seal, it really stiffens up the gloves. Once I wear them in, I think these will be my favorite as they feel the warmest. http://www.kinco.com/product/901/

Mittens
Still using the Fox River Gripper gloves as liner, I then use fleece mittens from Apocalypse Design and overmittens. These is my wet fall/spring combo for snow.
http://akgear.com/product/fleece-mittens/
http://akgear.com/product/overmitts/

When it's cold, I also have my Beaver mittens I made with webbing around my neck. I haven't found a better substitute than fur in the cold.

Baselayer
When you are wearing thermals everyday, you get a collection. My favorite for cold weather are Smartwool thermals. They are alot thicker. I wear the Smartwool 250 and really like them. The Icebreaker 260 wool baselayers come in close second to the Smartwool. Really can't go wrong. I also like Patagonia Capilene (synthetic). Ibex makes good baselayer, but I get too many holes in mine (not as durable as the Smartwool or Ibex) so I've stopped buying them.

Mid Layer
I like Patagonia R1 fleece bottoms and top (hoody version) for my next layer. I also have a collection of Ibex wool tops off varying thickness that I'll also wear like the Ibex Woolies Hoody. It really depends on the temperature.

Bibs/pants
For flying, I'll wear Carhartt Insulated bibs or the insulated full zip pant (discontinued this year). If it's -20 I'll just wear thermals underneath the insulated carhartt. Colder than -20 and I'll add either fleece or a synthetic pant over top the baselayer.

I usually wear a soft shell pant over the thermals if I'm flying on skis. My favorite is the Mammut Traleika (not sure what the men's equivalent model is). This allows me to take off the bibs when I don't need that extra layer, but still stay dry.

I wear my bunny boots with gaiters (OR Expedition Crocodiles or Verglas) over my softshell pants. With this combo, I won't get snow in my boots, I can easily walk in deep snow, snowshoe, shovel, pack runways, etc. You always hear layering is key... Well I can tell you I don't need insulated carhartt bibs to dig out a stuck plane, but I do need them once I've stopped moving. Having the softshell is great.

Jacket and vest
I'm a big fan of vests, mainly because they keep your core warm. My favorite is the Patagonia Down sweater vest. I can fuel up with a thermal top, and flannel shirt with a vest over top and be fine at -20. It as is more comfortable to fly in and I can just keep my jacket beside me. It also is helpful when I'm moving to not get too hot.

For jackets, I'll always have my parka with wolverine ruff called the "Alpine Parka". It's from Apocalypse Design (Fairbanks, AK company) and it is the best jacket for the cold we have up here. Now, most times, it's too warm to wear the parka, but it's an essential part of my cold weather gear. Plane with no heat last week, flying 3 hours and even with the inversion, it was -20F so I put my parka on and stayed nice and warm. When I landed this week and it was -48F, you bet I had my parka on. (Luckily I was only stopping in...)
http://akgear.com/product/alpine-parka/

Hat
Wool or fleece beanie and a Beaver fur trappers hat are my hats of choice.

Boots
-10F and warmer
Salomon Mountaineering boots and a pair of wool socks keep me warm

-10F to -30F
Either Bunny Boots or Steger Mukluks. For the cub flying on skis and no brakes, I wear the big clunky bunny boots no problem. When I'm flying with brakes, I like the Steger Mukluks for the size, comfort, and ability to "feel" the rudder pedals. I won't go anywhere with just my Steger mukluks, as overflow and wet pretty much make them useless. I wear a pair of Neos Overshoe Navigator 5 overtop the Stegers. I've studded the overshoes for ice and they are great for moving the cub around in the winter. My feet have got cold at -20F with the Stegers flying a cub. Bunnies are my favorite. I combine Bunny Boots with a "Bama sock" which helps cut the moisture.

Bama socks
http://www.gear-up.com/products/view/ba ... bber-boots


I shared more than you need, but figured it might help the colder crowds. Or persuade some to go to Hawaii and forget all the layers (it takes a good 10 minutes to get dressed to go outside!).

For you, get some thermals, a fleece, warm hat and gloves. For boots, any quality insulated boot should be fine for those temperatures. I use a mountaineering boot, but I'm accustomed to the cold weather. Also note, gear I recommended gets really expensive. It's not necessary, but this is what I like and use and on sale, makes the price just expensive instead of really expensive. I don't use electric jackets or hand warmers. I dress and wear clothes that have the ability to keep me warm.

Great. Advice so far. AIWAYS dress to walk out or spend a few days. The trick is to keep the temp in the plane down so you don't overheat. Mittens are key to preventing frostbite of the hands. Gloves just don't cut it in the cold.
DENNY

DENNY wrote:...The trick is to keep the temp in the plane down so you don't overheat...
DENNY

Maybe I just have a drafty plane, but... For me it's the preflight when I have to be careful not to overheat: stuffing wing covers into sacks, hauling extension cords, loading cargo, scrubbing frost off wing undersides, breaking skis loose... It's really easy to get sweated up, and then climb into the plane huffing and puffing and instantly steam the plane up which turns to frost inside the windows. I try to slow down my natural pace of doing things in the cold. This keeps insulating layers dryer, helps protect cold, brittle components from breakage, and might well avoid a careless accident, all of which can have more serious repercussions in the cold.
-DP

p.s.- I'll also put in a plug here for Steger mukluks. Not as definitive protection as bunny boots, but light, flexible, great feel through the soles, and nothing that can scratch a cowl if you're climbing up to fuel etc.

I would be very careful about relying on any electric heated gear. If you have an alternator failure, your toasty warm gear is going to provide a LOT less warmth.

And, one of the MOST important functions of winter clothing in aviation is keeping you warm when you're on the ground....like anywhere you wind up where there's no warming shed nearby. Doesnt have to be just survival situation, though that's a big one.

On a cross country weather comes down and you opt to land at a rural airport. Good decision, but after landing you find that this airport has no facilities, or they're locked up. Cell coverage? Nope. Better have some serious cold weather clothing to replace that now somewhat useless electric stuff.

That scenario seem impossible today? I ran into just that place this last year, fortunately not in cold.

MTV

Yup. If you're cold while flying you're not dressed properly to be flying.

Gump


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mtv wrote:I would be very careful about relying on any electric heated gear. If you have an alternator failure, your toasty warm gear is going to provide a LOT less warmth.

And, one of the MOST important functions of winter clothing in aviation is keeping you warm when you're on the ground....like anywhere you wind up where there's no warming shed nearby. Doesnt have to be just survival situation, though that's a big one.

On a cross country weather comes down and you opt to land at a rural airport. Good decision, but after landing you find that this airport has no facilities, or they're locked up. Cell coverage? Nope. Better have some serious cold weather clothing to replace that now somewhat useless electric stuff.

That scenario seem impossible today? I ran into just that place this last year, fortunately not in cold.

MTV

How did I know a rebuttal was coming?

Don't recall anyone saying anything about being reliant on electric clothing...in fact I specifically cautioned against it.

Used properly, electric clothing will add a level of comfort beyond anything else available today. When the power quits, it's just as effective as any other garment of equal weight. There's really no downside.

I've been wearing my Aerostich Kanetsu Airvantage Electric Vest all day today and concur with everything above.

I don't fly in Alaska, but do make winter flights over and from mountainous areas in the PNW. I don't wear synthetics when I fly. Too many off airport (and some on airport) landings go bad... and over a third result in post crash fires. Natural fibres (wool!!! and cotton) close to my skin and outter garmets are my preference. I ask my passengers to 'dress for the unplanned' landing, not the comfy destination, and offer the same advice on wearing nylon, rayon, or other "stick on/burnable/meltable" fabrics. Depending on whether I'll have sufficient altitude on my winter flights I may wear a roomy nomex flight jacket/flightsuit combination over my woolens. Some flight profiles are low enough that I'm pretty much gonna land pretty close to the point of engine failure/in-flight-fire in whatever might be available for an opening. Leather/shearling gloves are my preference for flying. I often wear synthetic gloves with liners for my preflights, but don't wear them in flight.

Lotsa good suggestions in the posts here. Great thread.

Hammer wrote:

mtv wrote:I would be very careful about relying on any electric heated gear. If you have an alternator failure, your toasty warm gear is going to provide a LOT less warmth.

And, one of the MOST important functions of winter clothing in aviation is keeping you warm when you're on the ground....like anywhere you wind up where there's no warming shed nearby. Doesnt have to be just survival situation, though that's a big one.

On a cross country weather comes down and you opt to land at a rural airport. Good decision, but after landing you find that this airport has no facilities, or they're locked up. Cell coverage? Nope. Better have some serious cold weather clothing to replace that now somewhat useless electric stuff.

That scenario seem impossible today? I ran into just that place this last year, fortunately not in cold.

MTV

How did I know a rebuttal was coming?

Don't recall anyone saying anything about being reliant on electric clothing...in fact I specifically cautioned against it.

Used properly, electric clothing will add a level of comfort beyond anything else available today. When the power quits, it's just as effective as any other garment of equal weight. There's really no downside.

Actually, your statement that nothing but a light garment should be worn under the electric clothing pretty well says everything anyone who actually operates in cold climates needs to know.

I've flown a number of airplanes in very cold weather, and keeping warm IN the airplane has never been an issue, because most airplanes have decent heaters, and those that don't just take a little work to make them toasty in flight.

It's on the ground where I want good warm gear, and the electric stuff, by definition, isn't that warm.

MTV

Right. So the reason to specify what's worn UNDER an electric garment is because if they're not next to your skin, they don't work well. That has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what you put OVER said garment. You really think folks are riding motorcycles in the winter wearing an electric vest and nothing over it?

I didn't think that had to be spelled out...

Dress in layers ( I prefer at least 3-4) with non-flammable next to skin and resistant to moisture. Once wet from sweat the insulation value goes away.

Lots of options. Spent 19 years in the UP and 51 so far in Alaska cold and never froze yet. Go hunting and camping before flying and the dress becomes obvious.

Boots. My latest favorite for active outdoors: http://www.muckboots.com/arctic-pro-bark If you get cold in these stay home or wear military Bunny Boots.

Last deal. Carry a big thermos of something boiling hot like plain water, sweet tea, or soup. Warms you from the inside, provides energy and fluids, and can thaw cold extremities. If all else fails build a fire and heat some liquids in the cook kit you always carry.

GAP

Thank you everyone who took the time and effort for these very informative replies ! It's great to have the benefit of your experience. I admit we may be spoiled here in the midwest with moderate temps, but my circulation to hands and feet doesn't seem as good as it once was.

We do enjoy the performance of winter flying, the smoother air, and the landscape is transformed when covered with snow. Our C-172 does have a good cabin heater which works well unless on the ground or in the pattern. Pre-flight and re-fueling seems to be when we feel the nip of winter the most.

And thank you for reminding me about survival in the event of an off-airport landing.

Any other thoughts are warmly welcome !!!

Denalipilot
I hear ya brother, trying to preflight/load/unload the cub with all that gear on can work up a sweat pretty easy. I tend to loose my hat and coat and just stay a bit cold when working. Heel brakes in the cub make the big boots easy wear, keeping my toes off the brakes in the pacer took some learning

I am on the road this week so hopefully this post makes it ( lost last one)
DENNY

Wool socks, Sorel Bear boots, long under wear, carhart arctic extreme bib overalls over a tshirt and hoody, down vest, carhart parka, this face/hood thingy and a wool cap. Goggles for when the wind is blowing hard Surprisingly leather gloves with thinsulate have been working really well, but I keep some snowmachine mittens ready. This is my second season in Deadhorse and the above has worked really well for me. Seen temps as low as 37 below ambient, and I have no idea what the wind chill was. I am typing this while sitting next to my woodstove and drinking coffee which dampens memory of the really cold.

Paid a pretty penny for the carhart stuff and boots, but I hate being cold

I tried the hand warmer thing but they made my hands sweat and then they got really cold. Heading back on the 15th for this month's shift.

I wear my Mustang work suit. Warm and floats. That and a helmet and I look like a total dork. Just need a knee board to finish it off.

Keeping warm while airborne is easy enough, even for those of us flying Rotax 912S's ( half the fuel burn of a 0-320, less "free" cast off heat to scavange). So is staying warm on the ground. The trick is being able to quickly and easily strip off those cozy duds, before working up a sweat once landed, especially in if working hard . Shoveling comes to mind That combination of rapid response cold weather gear makes what we do similar to the back country skier crowd, who work their asses off climbing, while still needing warmth once stopped. One big difference is they rarely crash and catch on fire, so all that un/non fire resistant poly pro stuff they wear, ain't for us. I split the difference, and keep wearing their gear to a minimum, and try not to crash. Haven't been cold flying in years. Sweating once landed, yes.