I had to provide gun cover for "Nighthawk" twice in Vietnam, and hated it. Completely dark except firebases that looked like campfires. I had twenty ten vision, which was worthless at night. I have always been disoriented at night.

Odd story.

Its easy to mistake those two airports. They are so close as to almost have overlapping patterns, they are both on the same side of the same highway in the same orientation on the same CTAF but...

The pilot was from Boise. This is his backyard.

This is one of the reasons we have GPS.

The beacon location is different on the two fields.

Also, most importantly, an airplane WILL land at any airport. Why he crashed has nothing to do with the field's identifier.

BTW, as a student pilot a million years ago, pre GPS, I once landed at the wrong airport. It happened to many, if not most of us.

Very confusing report--somewhat typical of the media. That the pilot was at the wrong airport would appear to have nothing to do at all with crashing.

Cary

The story reads as if he landed / crashed off airport on a street.

Edit: He did crash on a street.

https://www.idahopress.com/news/local/boise-man-injured-in-aircraft-crash-in-nampa/article_09e8f33b-ca50-5067-9158-6e174b23478f.html

Feel bad for the pilot. I misplaced an airport out in UT one time. Had to ask where I was. I needed to go about 30 more miles W. to get to the one I wanted. Embarrassing as Hell. Had a couple of passengers chattering away and we were all just sure we were in the right place.

I purposely didn't add any details, as I too thought it was pretty odd. BUT, I didn't pick up on the fact it happened at night, probably because I don't night fly, never have, so I guess I assumed it happened during the day, making it even more explainable. At least he got it down more or less in one piece. Assuming his GPS was working, it is a bit odd.

courierguy wrote:I purposely didn't add any details, as I too thought it was pretty odd. BUT, I didn't pick up on the fact it happened at night, probably because I don't night fly, never have, so I guess I assumed it happened during the day, making it even more explainable. At least he got it down more or less in one piece. Assuming his GPS was working, it is a bit odd.

How in the hell did you get a pilot license without any night flying???

And for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure a GPS isn't required equipment on an aircraft...pretty sure it's not even part of the PP test criteria, or at least it wasn't when I got mine.

Not saying it makes good sense to fly without one, but I don't think you can pass your PP flight test if you have to use a GPS to get where you're going. I guess I don't know where the assumption that the pilot had a GPS comes from.

Maybe he had one, maybe not. Doesn't matter...he identified where the airport was (incorrectly), then set up for a landing and couldn't come up with a Plan B in time not to hit the ground when he figured out it wasn't actually the airport. Not that strange a story...anyone who claims they haven't set up on the wrong piece of turf hasn't flown that much. Now whether they touched down or not is a different story...

Hammer wrote:

courierguy wrote:I purposely didn't add any details, as I too thought it was pretty odd. BUT, I didn't pick up on the fact it happened at night, probably because I don't night fly, never have, so I guess I assumed it happened during the day, making it even more explainable. At least he got it down more or less in one piece. Assuming his GPS was working, it is a bit odd.

How in the hell did you get a pilot license without any night flying???

And for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure a GPS isn't required equipment on an aircraft...pretty sure it's not even part of the PP test criteria, or at least it wasn't when I got mine.

Not saying it makes good sense to fly without one, but I don't think you can pass your PP flight test if you have to use a GPS to get where you're going. I guess I don't know where the assumption that the pilot had a GPS comes from.

Maybe he had one, maybe not. Doesn't matter...he identified where the airport was (incorrectly), then set up for a landing and couldn't come up with a Plan B in time not to hit the ground when he figured out it wasn't actually the airport. Not that strange a story...anyone who claims they haven't set up on the wrong piece of turf hasn't flown that much. Now whether they touched down or not is a different story...

Why do you need to fly at night to get your license?? The only reason you are required to have night flight training is for your night rating. PPL does not require night flying.

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I did not have a GPS in my plane for the first 150 hours of flying. Very easy even in the daylight for a new pilot to be confused. Three hours of night flying for PPL does little to prep a low time pilot that does not fly often. Very easy for a young low time guy to get over his head at night. If he has lots of flight time I would suspect other issues. My first night landing I bounced so hi I did not even think of saving it!!! I just added power and told tower this full stop was changed to a go around!!!
DENNY

Why do you need to fly at night to get your license?? The only reason you are required to have night flight training is for your night rating. PPL does not require night flying.

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Just to clarify, night flying IS very much required for a PPL. In Alaska, you have 12 months to get the night time after the check ride, but your license becomes invalid if you don't.

Sport Pilots, otoh, are not required to get night time.

Cannon wrote:

Why do you need to fly at night to get your license?? The only reason you are required to have night flight training is for your night rating. PPL does not require night flying.

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Just to clarify, night flying IS very much required for a PPL. In Alaska, you have 12 months to get the night time after the check ride, but your license becomes invalid if you don't.

Sport Pilots, otoh, are not required to get night time.

I'm in Canada so that's what I'm thinking about. No night flying requirement here for the PPL. if we want we get a night rating tagged on and that's when we do any night flying.

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My primary instructor had 10,000 hours in the right seat. I was his last. He survived a bunch of students, owning an FBO that broke him, an accident that killed his father, countless incursions with the weather in the Rocky Mountains, engine failure in a Piper Seneca in the ice, 8000 hours hauling prisoners in a P210, a mid-air collision, and a car wreck that damn near killed him. He said that leaving at night, single engine was one of the few things that worried him in an airplane so he didn't do it very often. We did our night cross country over I70 and the rest in the pattern. I bet I haven't done 5 hours since. I'd be like the poor bastard that landed on the road. [emoji1]

Rob works mostly night, so he is used to it. I have three or four hundred night hours, but that is mostly military helicopter on instrument flight plan. I am not familiar enough with night contact flying to be safe. Night vision goggles came after my time.

You can get a SEL without night flying, I did. BUT your ticket will state it as a prohibition, mine does anyway. I think most new pilots probably just get steamrolled over, it's assumed, that you want to fly at night, so night training is probably rolled into the training package. I was using my own homebuilt for the majority of my official training, so paying rent on a 172 for 3 hours for something I had no interest in rubbed me the wrong way. My SEL cost me less then $1000.00, by using my own bird as much as possible.

Good for you. Pilots who want to fly will find a way.

courierguy wrote:You can get a SEL without night flying, I did. BUT your ticket will state it as a prohibition, mine does anyway. I think most new pilots probably just get steamrolled over, it's assumed, that you want to fly at night, so night training is probably rolled into the training package. I was using my own homebuilt for the majority of my official training, so paying rent on a 172 for 3 hours for something I had no interest in rubbed me the wrong way. My SEL cost me less then $1000.00, by using my own bird as much as possible.

That's pretty cool...never heard of anyone doing that before.

FWIW, when I did the night flying for my PPL my instructor told me that the US was the only country on earth where pilots were allowed to fly at night without an IFR rating, and I should probably think about that some. Not sure if he was entirely correct, but it did make an impression on me regarding the risks of night flying.

Slightly off subject, but for a commercial ticket, even if you're already IFR, you have to do a one-hour nighttime cross country flight with a CFI. The fact that you could have been doing said flights fourteen times a week for the past 20 years with your PPL doesn't seem to matter...you have to do one with a CFI. Never understood that part of the commercial ticket.

Hammer wrote:

courierguy wrote:You can get a SEL without night flying, I did. BUT your ticket will state it as a prohibition, mine does anyway. I think most new pilots probably just get steamrolled over, it's assumed, that you want to fly at night, so night training is probably rolled into the training package. I was using my own homebuilt for the majority of my official training, so paying rent on a 172 for 3 hours for something I had no interest in rubbed me the wrong way. My SEL cost me less then $1000.00, by using my own bird as much as possible.

That's pretty cool...never heard of anyone doing that before.

FWIW, when I did the night flying for my PPL my instructor told me that the US was the only country on earth where pilots were allowed to fly at night without an IFR rating, and I should probably think about that some. Not sure if he was entirely correct, but it did make an impression on me regarding the risks of night flying.

Slightly off subject, but for a commercial ticket, even if you're already IFR, you have to do a one-hour nighttime cross country flight with a CFI. The fact that you could have been doing said flights fourteen times a week for the past 20 years with your PPL doesn't seem to matter...you have to do one with a CFI. Never understood that part of the commercial ticket.

You don't need an IFR rating to fly at night in Canada either and like A1 Skinner said no night flying to get a PPL here. Night flying is its own thing, I think it's five hours to get the rating but I haven't looked into it lately, I only fly floats and that doesn't mix with night flying.

courierguy wrote:You can get a SEL without night flying, I did. BUT your ticket will state it as a prohibition, mine does anyway. I think most new pilots probably just get steamrolled over, it's assumed, that you want to fly at night, so night training is probably rolled into the training package. I was using my own homebuilt for the majority of my official training, so paying rent on a 172 for 3 hours for something I had no interest in rubbed me the wrong way. My SEL cost me less then $1000.00, by using my own bird as much as possible.

That's awesome you did it that cheaply. I can't imagine getting it for anywhere near that today, no matter what you're flying.

I hope you don't inadvertently get hosed, as I can't see any way to get a PPL without eventually doing the night flying. The only exceptions that allow a permanent 'Night Flying Prohibited' statement on a certificate are for gyroplanes, powered parachute and weight shift aircraft (referenced in the last paragraph (c) below).

I just don't want to see someone get violated or have a claim denied because their certificate wasn't valid. If you have a Canadian license, disregard, as I don't know the rules up there.


§61.110 Night flying exceptions.
(a) Subject to the limitations of paragraph (b) of this section, a person is not required to comply with the night flight training requirements of this subpart if the person receives flight training in and resides in the State of Alaska.

(b) A person who receives flight training in and resides in the State of Alaska but does not meet the night flight training requirements of this section:

(1) May be issued a pilot certificate with a limitation “Night flying prohibited”; and

(2) Must comply with the appropriate night flight training requirements of this subpart within the 12-calendar-month period after the issuance of the pilot certificate. At the end of that period, the certificate will become invalid for use until the person complies with the appropriate night training requirements of this subpart. The person may have the “Night flying prohibited” limitation removed if the person—

(i) Accomplishes the appropriate night flight training requirements of this subpart; and

(ii) Presents to an examiner a logbook or training record endorsement from an authorized instructor that verifies accomplishment of the appropriate night flight training requirements of this subpart.

(c) A person who does not meet the night flying requirements in §61.109(d)(2), (i)(2), or (j)(2) may be issued a private pilot certificate with the limitation “Night flying prohibited.” This limitation may be removed by an examiner if the holder complies with the requirements of §61.109(d)(2), (i)(2), or (j)(2), as appropriate.

I got half way through reading those regs and dozed off. I got my ticket in '88 and so far so good, is that more then 12 months? If so, they can come after me and make me get a night rating, but I want them to look at my home airstrip first, and see if THEY would want to land it at night. It would seem to me that if I have a prohibition against night flying stated on my certificate (license?) and I DON'T fly at night, I'm golden, if not I'll apologize if ever called out on it. And challenge them to find a night flight in my log book. Case closed!