The Calls, in Afton Wyoming, made a very slick, low wood wing, tw airplane with a wide wing mounted main gear and ribs in all the controls. That airplane was the basis of all the A models of CallAir including the A9-B or Quail. The A9 was identical to the Quail in 180Marty's picture except it didn't have flaperons. It had the 235hp O-540 same as early Pawnees. Both the InterMountain A9 and and the Commander Quail flew much easier than the Pawnee but the same area wing was less efficient. Neither would carry as much as the Pawnee with the same engine.

All the A9s had big cowl flaps that my mechanic said were the cause of the stall spin fear of CallAir. I don't think it was a stall spin at all because I have experienced them at 100' AGL. The down wing, in a tight turn, would drop significantly. Just a tap on the opposite rudder would bring it right back. It was very scary, however, and ended the attempt to make the crop row. The airplane flew so well it encouraged too aggressive return to target.

I don't know much about ag planes ..... but we tied down in front of this beauty yesterday in Dawson Creek, British Columbia.

kg wrote:I don't know much about ag planes ..... but we tied down in front of this beauty yesterday in Dawson Creek, British Columbia.

That's a very tired old ag cat. Its sat for a lot of years now... I tried to buy it. If you flew from Dawson to Grande Prairie you pretty much flew right over my place.

A1Skinner wrote:That's a very tired old ag cat. Its sat for a lot of years now... I tried to buy it. If you flew from Dawson to Grande Prairie you pretty much flew right over my place.

We did this morning! Didn't stop in Grande Prairie though...that wind was out of my comfort zone. Made it to Red Deer and called it a day. Weird wind patters with 30 knots in Edmonton, 30 knots in Calgary, and 12-15 here halfway in between. Pretty darn windy in your area!!

kg wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:That's a very tired old ag cat. Its sat for a lot of years now... I tried to buy it. If you flew from Dawson to Grande Prairie you pretty much flew right over my place.

We did this morning! Made it to Red Deer and called it a day. Weird wind patters with 30 knots in Edmonton, 30 knots in Calgary, and 12-15 here halfway in between. Pretty darn windy in your area!!

Strange wind patterns for sure. We welcomed them today as we were able to start combining before noon today. But they are blowing in afternoon showers that keep us slowed down. A big PIA.

Some old footage of top dressing training back in the early days in NZ. This was a very good school and probably pilots that went through it had a better rate of survival in what was a fairly dangerous industry.

https://vimeo.com/282369015

Good film. I worked fertilizer and seed over trees l had killed with 2-4-5T in the Ozarks, but nothing as rough as that.

Back in those days they used whatever aircraft that were suitable to convert, Tiger Moths at the start, Piper cubs, Austers, Cessna 180/185, Beavers, (pilots favourite), Lodestars, (3 ton load), DC-3s, (19 converted 5 ton load single pilot).
Various purpose built Ag Aircraft from Pommy land. The FU24 Fletcher gained a foothold when most of the Beavers were taken up by the military and they were hard to get and expensive. Pilots seemed to have a love hate relationship with the Fletcher but apparently it was a money maker. It went from 225 HP to 400 HP over time, then quite a few ended up with the Walter Turbine 550 HP in them, also the PT6. Only the 400 and the PT6 flown these days plus other turbines, Cresco 750 and PAC 750. Air Tractor are starting to get a presence here as well, but a lot of the back country strips are probably not suitable. Has been the odd Thrush over the years. Industry still pretty buoyant and obviously a lot of helicopters on the scene these days.

The Fletcher looks most like the common Ag airplane here since the Pawnee was designed for greater safety. Low wing allows visibility in turns and is a cushion to crash on. Everything since has looked the same. Pilot up high on trailing edge far away from the engine. Hopper in front so materials spill on engine in crash.

In standard tw airplane, pilot hits first, engine comes back on him, and the poison spills over his back. When I retired in 2005, the Piper Cub had killed the most Ag pilots even though it hadn't been used much for years.

I now live up the road from Afton in Alpine, WY. In addition to the Husky factory, Afton sports the CallAir museum (it’s in the modern looking municipal building). This is one of the best small aircraft museums that I have ever visited. Well worth it and only donation requested...

Blue skies,

Tommy

Contact, yes, the Fletcher is definitely not the aircraft you want to crash in, absolutely no protection for the pilot. Pawnee's used here as well as Ag Wagons back in the day.
The first turbine Fletcher flew in July 1967, I believe it was the first turbine Ag aircraft in the world. Two more Fletcher types flew later in 1967 and 1970.
Piper cubs were also used on Venison recovery by hunter pilots. They used to get some incredible loads into them and operated out of some hairy strips but no one to my knowledge was ever killed in one in that particular role. You just couldn't stuff enough weight into them.
Topdressing was a different story with a solid load of Super or lime. The 135 hp Cub empty weight 398 kg and MAUW NZ AG was 794 kg, load between 4 cwt/ 7 cwt. The 150 hp Cub was empty weight 429 kg and MAUW NZ AG was 939 kg, load between 5 cwt and 8 cwt. 1 cwt = 50.8 kg.
A lot of pilots killed on topdressing ops in Piper Cubs, stall, flick, spin.
32 different fixed wing types operated on Ag here up to 1981.

The low wing provides the best cushion for crash survivability. And it also allows the pilot to continuously see where he is going in the turn. It is much easier to make an accurate turn to a target we can see. In the latter part of the energy management turn (crop duster turn) we want to see the crop row (target) and the wires we must see to level the wing before crossing.

In your excellent old film, they are making various turns to irregular ridge lines. Notice in the cockpit shots that the nose is down coming onto target. No visual horizon. Only terrain in view. Steep level turns with a load are not healthy. Nor is looking at a ball bank, or any instruments, for coordination. The rate of nose movement across terrain tells pilot he is turning at the proper rate for the angle of bank. Height above the ridge, or whatever target, is an estimate in a high wing. With low wing we can see the target throughout the latter part of the energy management turn.

The high lift wing on the Cub allowed it to haul a good load. I won't attempt kg to pounds conversion but the 235 hp Pawnee hauled 1200 pounds below 4,000' DA. It had the same high lift wing.

Contact, thought you might like to see this photo and the story behind it. The pilot had just picked the 180 up from the maintenance base, he was just flying along when one prop blade decided to part company, almost instantly followed by engine and prop. With a bit of skill and a fair amount of luck he managed to get it on the ground in one piece. The remaining blade nicked the tyre, just missing the strut as whole assembly fell away. He rang the engineer and said the engine was missing, who said, "have you checked the plugs?" Don said, "I would but I can't find the engine!"

Just like to add, I am not an Ag pilot but have a few friends who are and have a great interest in the industry. I have a lot of respect for any pilots who have flown Ag and are still around to tell the tale.

Scott185 that's an incredible pic/story. Howinhell did he do that?

The article didn't clarify, but the weight of the engine had to stay with the airplane until he got it down. The horrible shaking until he got the engine shut down would have added to the story. Good job.

Contact, that's what I was wondering. If it departed, how did he do it?


(guess it didn't depart....the CG shift would have made it uncontrollable).

The old 450 Stearmans used for acro would occasionally break a motor mount. they finally went to putting a cable around the mount in such a way to keep the engine with the airframe, I think.


(IIRC, it was Duane Cole's son who died from a 450 departing a Stearman).

I finished a season with a 450hp Stearman. I thought the cable was to ground the engine with the airplane. Didn't think about the fact that it had no electrical system. 450s were loose and easy to prop. 600s must have made some of the extra power by tightening things up. Needed wobble pump to put a lot of start fuel in and quite a bit of starter crank. 450, give the big Hamilton Standard a swing and go around the wing to get in.

Erceg was a very experienced pilot, not that he had much input, just an incredible amount of luck.

what an amazing story.


Is that from a book, or magazine?

That beats all my crop duster crash stories!