Wonderful quote above!

I’m going flying today…not “someday!”

I recall a friend of mine who bought a Supercub in the early 90s for $50,000. There was no shortage of people telling him he should have waited until the prices came back down........... It would have been a long wait.

Bought a lot of planes over the years helping friends etc. The market has always seemed overpriced as there are more buyers than sellers most of the time. Stumbling into one locally is always a good bet. For the most part, if your looking for a real good deal about the time your ready to give up something will come up. Or just after you bought if your not patient. If your not ready to buy sight unseen and close the deal in a few hours after an ad comes out your wasting time looking at the Trade a Plane type markets expecting to get a great deal. If its a great buy someone is always willing to do that including myself. Always remember the price in the ad is not typically what the plane sells for so don't let that discourage you. Only way you really know is making an offer. Look at the old ads from a year or 2 ago and try and find a great airplane that was way overpriced, see if it was still for sale, and come in with an offer below the market on those stale marketed ones. Bought a lot of very good airplanes that way. I generally spend more time checking out the seller than the plane. A honest person that has the wherewithal to do proper maintenance is either going to fix what was wrong or tell you about any problems that even the best pre-buy may not find. Would sooner pay way to much for a real premium airplane than get a smoking deal on a junker. One word of caution is dealing with some of the old retired pilots that have the barn find type is they are usually as honest as the day is long but their idea of like new is in their memory from the past and may not even be close to reality so word of caution there. With the price of new aircraft if you can find a true no damage airplane, with no corrosion and low TT priced right you can paint, put in a new engine, avionics etc as long as that you calculate that into the price and you should have a winner. Corrosion and damage history and high TT are terminal and will always reflect resale no matter what anybody tells you.
Hope thats of some help.

Thanks for all of the replies fellas, lots of good tips/pointers and words of encouragement and wisdom here. I will be watching the market diligently going forward and I have already considered reaching out to a few local owners shown in the FAA registration records via mail. I have a few feelers out with some folks in other parts of the country as well and I am in talks with a few for sale here and on another site, too.

By all means please keep the thread going with suggestions on things to look out for, possible sale leads, etc.

I bought a Super Cub with a mid-time engine and a semi-fresh rebuild for $71,500 in 2001. I put 1000 hours on it, did a few mods, and sold it nine years later with the same engine and fabric for $75,000. That led me into the 180 that I now have and plan to keep indefinitely.

It was a stretch to buy that Super Cub and it was a stretch to buy the 180. I could have made safer investments, especially when you consider that it's cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years to fuel, maintain, insure, and protect those two airplanes.

But they've been worth every cent, and have defined who I am more than any other purchases I've ever made. The memories, experiences, and friends that I have and will continue to accumulate are worth every cent.

So, go buy the best something you can afford now, and if something better comes along next year then trade up. All of that is better than sitting on the sidelines, and if you pay the right price on the front end you'll always be able to get your money back if you need it.

CoaSTOL Cowboy wrote:I have already considered reaching out to a few local owners shown in the FAA registration records via mail.

Just a quick word of advice on this as someone who's received these letters multiple times. If your letter looks/feels like it's from a broker(most do) and indicates you'd like to just buy "my" plane, it is very likely to get a chuckle and tossed in the trash.
If instead it indicates who you are(long time pilot, working on ratings, new student), the kind of flying you like or would like to do, and aircraft besides mine that you'd be interested you're much more likely to get a text or email back and possibly another set of eyes on a tough market to help get you into an airplane.

I echo what's been said in this thread - don't wait, if you really want to fly!

One thing I'd like to add - check the forums for the make/models you are interested in, sometimes good deals pop up there before Barnstormers or Trade-A-Plane! I just ended up buying a Stinson 108-3 220 HP that just came out of restoration last spring - new fabric, interior, etc - posted on the International Stinson FB group. They are great planes and undervalued compared to other makes for what you get, as was said earlier in this thread. Cheap insurance (although I have about 300 hours in Stinson, got my license in one), cost half as much as the Maule M6-235 that I almost bought in November and in much better condition.

Christina Young wrote:.... I just ended up buying a Stinson 108-3 220 HP that just came out of restoration last spring - new fabric, interior, etc - posted on the International Stinson FB group. They are great planes and undervalued compared to other makes .....

I've seen some great deals on 108's fitted with Continental 470's.
I've known two guys who had these and they kick ass--
comparable to a C180 in performance, although IMHO not in roominess.

108s are a great plane and tremendous value

Personally I’d avoid a mentalized one or one with a very heavy firewall forward “upgrade” they take what makes the Stinson great, it’s handling, and takes away from that, I had a 150hp and it did pretty much everything great and was smooth and light on the controls,

I was going to put a larger engine and CS prop on it, re do the panel for some IFR ops, but the real answer is to just buy a plane more built for that role, so I sold it and got my skywagon

I think the 220 fixed pitch conversion keeps the handling but bumps the power a bit

The Stinson 108-3 220 HP I just bought has a constant speed prop on it (in fact, I think it's required per the STC).

After I backed out of the Maule M6 deal due to what I saw in the pre-buy, the next on my list was a C-180 that caught my eye prior to the Maule. However, someone else made an offer and it was awaiting pre purchase for that buyer.

I think C-180s, Maules and Stinsons are all great planes. IMO, I flew my friend's C-180, and I think that a 220+ HP Stinson is a better STOL performer than a regular C-180, which needs the STOL cuff, wing extensions, etc. In fact, I thought that my friend's 180 had similar takeoff performance to my old 165 HP Stinson! This was without WingX, etc.

I personally was attracted to the 220 HP Franklin because it has only 10 less HP than the O-470, but weighs almost 100 lbs less! I really had no interest in a nose-heavy Stinson with an O-470.

I also like the landing gear on the Stinson, very rugged and suitable for rough off-field.

A little over a year ago, I was so struck by the asking prices on Skywagons that I could no longer justify holding that much of my net worth in a toy. I hired a well-renowned broker (really!) and listed it with a middle of the pack price.

Crickets. I got a couple of lowball offers sight unseen, but nothing serious.

Now I’m glad it turned out that way. I’ll probably keep my ‘wagon until it or I am worth only scrap.

However, I still have 2 airplanes and have no idea what the other one is worth….

A quick look on trade-a-plane, there are 5 or 6 180's under $150k. Some look better than others, but I would bet all could be had for significantly less than list price. A couple have lower time engines.

StillLearning wrote:A quick look on trade-a-plane, there are 5 or 6 180's under $150k. Some look better than others, but I would bet all could be had for significantly less than list price. A couple have lower time engines.

I've made some serious inquiries on a few and I have always gotten the "I believe this is fairly priced for the market" responses with strong implications that they have no interest in considering lower offers. Now it's true that you don't know if you don't try and worst thing they can say is no but I haven't found "the plane" just yet so I haven't gotten that far with any of them. In my personal opinion, most of these listings are a solid 20-30% over priced. It'll be interesting to see where the market and the economy in general goes this year, prices should trend alongside of it to some degree. I am in no rush to buy so that helps.

CoaSTOL Cowboy wrote:

StillLearning wrote:A quick look on trade-a-plane, there are 5 or 6 180's under $150k. Some look better than others, but I would bet all could be had for significantly less than list price. A couple have lower time engines.

I've made some serious inquiries on a few and I have always gotten the "I believe this is fairly priced for the market" responses with strong implications that they have no interest in considering lower offers. Now it's true that you don't know if you don't try and worst thing they can say is no but I haven't found "the plane" just yet so I haven't gotten that far with any of them. In my personal opinion, most of these listings are a solid 20-30% over priced. It'll be interesting to see where the market and the economy in general goes this year, prices should trend alongside of it to some degree. I am in no rush to buy so that helps.

Are these planes still on the market months later?

25ish percent more than they’d sell for pre covid does make sense if that’s the time frame we are talking about

NineThreeKilo wrote:

CoaSTOL Cowboy wrote:

StillLearning wrote:A quick look on trade-a-plane, there are 5 or 6 180's under $150k. Some look better than others, but I would bet all could be had for significantly less than list price. A couple have lower time engines.

I've made some serious inquiries on a few and I have always gotten the "I believe this is fairly priced for the market" responses with strong implications that they have no interest in considering lower offers. Now it's true that you don't know if you don't try and worst thing they can say is no but I haven't found "the plane" just yet so I haven't gotten that far with any of them. In my personal opinion, most of these listings are a solid 20-30% over priced. It'll be interesting to see where the market and the economy in general goes this year, prices should trend alongside of it to some degree. I am in no rush to buy so that helps.

Are these planes still on the market months later?

25ish percent more than they’d sell for pre covid does make sense if that’s the time frame we are talking about

I have no clue as I am not tracking these listings that far back since I wasn't in the market a few years ago. Everyone has an opinion and a theory as to why prices have increased and to some degree they all might be slightly correct but I see the prices as grossly inflated alongside of everything else that took advantage of the artificial money injection into the market we saw a few years back. Housing is coming back down in many markets and the auto industry is now in quite a pickle and paying for the thievery and bad practices they implemented during that time as well.

The metrics I don't have answers for are how many of these sellers really "need" to sell because they are upside down/cash poor/etc. and how many of them simply no longer fly for whatever reason and yet they don't want to let go due to their irrational emotional attachment. The latter will always be more difficult to work with when looking for a good deal.

I'm guessing that the belief that every thing is 20% to 30% overpriced will keep you out of the market. Waiting for a "fair" price might have you waiting long enough that you might be wishing for those "inflated" prices again.
If a $130k 180 is overpriced by 20%, that implies that a decent 180 is only just above $100k, planes have been selling for more than that for quite a while.

I don't believe a good/ decent 180 will ever be in the $110k range again.

StillLearning wrote:I'm guessing that the belief that every thing is 20% to 30% overpriced will keep you out of the market. Waiting for a "fair" price might have you waiting long enough that you might be wishing for those "inflated" prices again.
If a $130k 180 is overpriced by 20%, that implies that a decent 180 is only just above $100k, planes have been selling for more than that for quite a while.

I don't believe a good/ decent 180 will ever be in the $110k range again.

At the end of the day it's my money buying the plane, so if I don't like the prices or agree with the perceived market values that sellers are listing them for I can make an offer based on what I think it's worth or I can sit it out. I'd love a 170B or 180 but it's not the end all be all plane for me, there are lots of other great options out there south of $200K.

I sold my Skywagon in 2023 and purchased a 1959 PA-24-250 Comanche - I primarily fly it to a Grass Strip - 66S.

Since buying it I have watched the Comanche market pretty carefully, and I can confirm there are some great deals to be had. About once a month, I see a very capable 250 - one that I would jump in and fly - sell between 60k and 80k. There is a database one of the groups manage and there are about 60 Comanches for sale, nearly all of them less than 100k, and they are great deals.

The Comanche I think is an incredibly capable airplane - it's very fast and economical to fly, especially compared to my Skywagon. The annuals are a lot more forgiving as well, as it seems, for some reason, there's just less random Cessna Brackets that cost 1000$, maybe more like 300$ piper brackets, with this plane. Also the O-540 engine is a lot less maintenance [comparing two 300 hour ownership periods] to a boosted PPONK.

I also own a Lake Amphib - which is a market that has gone up very little in 10 years, it also has great value although tricky to insure. You can take a Lake a Lot of places for sure. It has utility all over Canada but also down in Florida as well. Really nice ones sell between 70k and 80k, and you can find sorted flyers for 45k-75k. This is a plane you can take all over - there's a guy at my airport who has flown his from Seattle to Alaska dozens of times.

I think the pressure on the 180 and 170 market not only has affected the purchase [entry] price, but Props, Brackets, Engines, and Insurance have gone way up as well. I loved my C180 a lot - I owned it for nearly 10 years, but recognize that fun per dollar value in different types.

I remember when I bought my 180 in 2006 there weren't very many available under $100,000, so I'd say the entry level 180 market has barely tracked inflation. Over that same time period, the S&P500 has gone up over 700% . I'm very glad I made the "poor" financial decision to buy the 180 back then though. It's for sure been worth it.

On the high end of the 180 market, there are many more fancy 180's now with new panels, autopilots, upgraded engines, composite props etc. than there were then. I remember when having 8.50's and a seaplane prop was the height of backcountry equipage.

I got hold of a hangar, which I thought would be impossible near me in MA and that motivated me to go buy a plane and stop waiting. My plan was to spend around $40k on a nice Champ. Found one, then walked away, then started looking at Citabrias. Had a few accepted offers and walked away from those finding things that seriously concerned me.

Was looking at TAP and BS multiple times a day. As well as certain FB groups. Nice, well maintained planed at reasonable prices could indeed move in minutes. Not a whole lot of inventory to consider in 2024, even being willing to spend a little more for a nice plane.

Saw a PA12 come up that looked fantastic. Priced high in my mind, but similar to other really nice PA12s with PA18 mods. Two weeks later saw an ad for the plane at 2/3 the original asking price. Figured it was an error. Went to another ad and indeed they dropped the price. Called within 5 minutes of that posting and had an accepted offer just under asking, which felt fair to me.

I bought it site unseen, had never even sat in a PA12, but did a good prebuy on it. It was 1400 miles from me. It was well more than my original planned spend, but man I love this plane. I always wanted a C180, but that wasn't in my budget with where they stand now.

In short, inventory was crap in 2024 for me. Found a lot of polished turds I had to run away from when I started digging in. Took me 5 or 6 months to find a plane. I had to act FAST when I saw something I liked.

Good luck. Buy the plane.