Anyone know if the canyon depicted in the show was the actual "box" canyon? Just looked like there was ample room to turn around but who knows what was factual and what was made up for TV.

mtv wrote:Cary,

FYI, my 406 ELT activated by itself (bad switch) so I disconnected it, turned the switch off and laid it inside the airplane. Twenty minutes later, my phone rang and the nice major from RCC told me my ELT was alerting again. No antenna, and they received a clear 406 signal.

Worth a try in any case. Doesn't cost anything?

MTV

Agreed--but rather than count on it to work sans antenna, I'm awaiting an email response from Spruce, assuming that they can get a portable antenna from Artex, since Artex doesn't sell at retail. For the $55 it's supposed to cost, it would be worth it to have, along with the pair of PLBs I always carry. Belt & suspenders, right?

Cary

I'm glad she's okay. Glad she finished her license. A lot of people would not have. I sure would have loved to have seen the sight of the hunter, limping down the trail, leading an injured horse with an injured girl on it's back. That's pure American poetry right there.

Denali wrote:To quote Scotsman Robert Burns

” The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft agley, “

John Steinbeck took the title of his 1937 novel Of Mice and Men from a line contained in the penultimate stanza: "The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft agley" (often paraphrased in English as "The best-laid plans of mice and men / Often go

I think the Marines have a saying something along the lines of " What's your go to Hell plan? "

Finally, lest we think we are all experienced sticks, there is an old Chinese saying that has always resonated with me: " Even monkeys fall from trees ".

This has been a very thought provoking thread... at least for me...

I agree.

Lest anyone think I am attempting character assassination in this case, I'm truly not.

As Denali and others have pointed out, we all make mistakes. I sure have. But those mistakes are truly tragic if we don't learn something of value from them. My point here is simply that there is a lot to be learned from this accident.

Finally, for those suggesting that this young lady can be excused for her errors because of her age, could you please refer me to the section of the FARs or the Practical Test Standards which suggests lower standards of performance based on age.

Once a 17 year old gets a private license, they can load up YOUR children and fly them through the mountains. Do you really believe there should be lower standards for 17 year olds?

MTV

I think all the harping on the age of the pilot is a bit misplaced, and blaming the flight instructor is puzzling.

She isn't the first person to get lost on their first XC solo, she wasn't/won't be the last, and if these types of incidents have anything in common, it does not include age in the equation. Visibility, weather, and familiarity with the area might be. People of all ages get lost...this one ended up pretty badly by comparison. For examples, use your google fu to look for "lost on solo cross country".

On this flight, there was apparently smoke in the air. Anyone that has flown in heavy smoke knows it can be an issue, either major or minor, and that it can go from one extreme to the other pretty fast at at times. Sometimes the visibility can change faster than any conventional weather I've ever seen. If this was indeed a factor, then perhaps the door opens a tiny bit to look at the instructor, but only if, and only a little IMHO.

I'm really puzzled by the blame on the instructor. Nobody has a clue about the quality of the instruction given from this incident. The planned route was away from the mountains. My long solo XC when I was barely 16 was completely *IN* and *OVER* extended segments of high terrain. Nothing wrong with that. Where I was based, there few topographical options for any students.

Returning to comments about age, I just don't know where the data is to support the notion that younger students are more hazardous to turn loose to solo. When I was learning, the young adult students were soloing in far less time that many older students, and exhibited mastery of the PTS significantly before older students did. That's not a knock on older students- that just seemed to be the case. It seems attitudes have changed, and now you see a lot of people needing 20 hours or more regardless of age to solo, and a lot more hours to complete their ticket. I think a lot of that can be chalked up to different attitudes about risk and responsibility rather than differing skills on the part of the students. I've had more than one frustrated student that had not been able to solo yet go for a ride with me and exhibit completely acceptable airmanship, switch instructors,and be soloing within a few short familiarity lessons with the new instructor. One is now himself an instructor.

The bottom line is that nobody really knows the circumstances that led her instructor to release her for a solo XC, and whether the circumstances or demonstrated skills were any different than any other student/CFI situation. As for criticism for flying in the mountains, the plan was never to be in the mountains in the first place.

The lack of experience that led to its conclusion is probably best summed up by the rejection of the option to turn around.

She isn't the first person to get lost on their first XC solo, she wasn't/won't be the last

Amen to that. I would bet that all of us have been "geographically misplaced" at one time or another.

The one thread in the video was the reliance on various electronics. That is not a totally bad thing but now and then relying on the spirit compass and the Mk I eyeball is a good exercise.

When was the last time we turned off all our "toys" and flew w/ an E6-B, compass, paper chart and stopwatch? I know I am rusty.

TD

lesuther wrote:The lack of experience that led to its conclusion is probably best summed up by the rejection of the option to turn around.

that's what i was thinking.
to quote RanchPilot,
"Experience is the knowledge that enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again"

I must say, I just re-read this thread to try to find all of the posts where "we" are making excuses because of the pilots age along with the posts that are trying to "sugar coat" the accident and I couldn't find any! There's only one person (Cary) who references the girls age other than the few of you that keep posting that everyone is excusing her because of her age. And Cary referenced her age in order to correlate a level of experience (both in life and in the airplane), not because it excuses her from any amount of responsibility or to insinuate that the rules don't apply.

Old pilots with little experience have made the same mistake, so have experienced pilots that were distracted by any number of stressors. "Bad" instructors have turned out good student just as good instructors have turned out bad students etc. .

It seems like too great a story with too few details to be over critically passionate. Yes, we can all learn from stories like this. The reality is that we'll all probably learn a little something different! And that's OK.

CW

She now has that experience to draw on, and also learn from it, too. Good for her!