I’ve come to the conclusion that apparently shoes do matter. Please tell me we are not going to address other forms of clothing. I don’t wish to know how or when others wear their thong.

When I was getting my private pilot license, I did it in a Citabria with heel brakes. I bought some fancy dancy (my old timer instructors description) puma driving shoes that had a sole that came up the back heel. I thought I was slick Rick walking into the FBO - he took one look and said “you are not gonna hike out very far in those fancy-dancy shoes if we have to put the plane down” (we fly in the sierra foothills a lot). I eventually got used to my more “stout” (also his description) shoes.

Mapleflt wrote:I’ve come to the conclusion that apparently shoes do matter. Please tell me we are not going to address other forms of clothing. I don’t wish to know how or when others wear their thong.

When I was a kid, “thongs” were footwear. The underwear may be named for its resemblance, having a Y shape, the center of which divides something anatomical.

Once the underwear.. .uh. . . appeared, and after a brief period of using the same word for both items, the footwear had to find a new name. After a short time in which they were called an ethnically insensitive name rhyming with “flap,” as in “*ap flaps,” they became “flip flops.” This transition was probably aided by one-time Albatross pilot Jimmy Buffet, who made mention of failed footwear in “Changes in Latitude, Changes in Attitude.”

And now you know. . . . . .The Rest of the Story!

StuBob wrote:

Mapleflt wrote:I’ve come to the conclusion that apparently shoes do matter. Please tell me we are not going to address other forms of clothing. I don’t wish to know how or when others wear their thong.

When I was a kid, “thongs” were footwear. The underwear may be named for its resemblance, having a Y shape, the center of which divides something anatomical.

Once the underwear.. .uh. . . appeared, and after a brief period of using the same word for both items, the footwear had to find a new name. After a short time in which they were called an ethnically insensitive name rhyming with “flap,” as in “*ap flaps,” they became “flip flops.” This transition was probably aided by one-time Albatross pilot Jimmy Buffet, who made mention of failed footwear in “Changes in Latitude, Changes in Attitude.”

And now you know. . . . . .The Rest of the Story!

Actually, not quite the whole story: In military, they were referred to as “shower shoes”, for obvious reasons.

MTV

I really only started flying tailwheel 2 months ago. About 17 hours in now. After my first flight in a Citabria, wearing boots, I thought maybe wearing some lighter weight tennis shoes would help. It's been freaking cold here the past few weeks, so no way I was going to wear those tennis shoes. I switched to winter insulated Xtratufs. I honestly didn't noticed a difference. As long as you have some idea of how much you need to push in the brakes and where they are, I don't see it being an issue. Main idea is to dress for comfort, as long as it's not ridiculous lol. To me, a bigger hinderance was any snow or residual water being left on the bottom of the shoe, especially with metal rudders/heel brakes. Can cause a bit of a slipping if you're not careful.

Several factors are involved with proper foot gear. First off is the aircraft equipped with heel or toe brakes? How much ankle flexion is required to apply full rudder or brake with out applying the other. What is the seat hight? What is the pilots leg length and ankle flexibility. This is a backcountry site so being able to instantly tap a brake without shifting the foot to the brake pedal is important for control on a lot of strips/conditions. For myself anything seems to work fine in the cub. I land duck foot with my heel on the brake and toe on the rudder Hiking boots/bunny boots have enough flexibility to apply full rudder without applying the brake. The heel always stays on the brake and I can apply them quickly. I feel this is an important thing that instructors fail to point out to students that learn in toe brakes. They land with foot straight up and have to move the heel back and inboard to apply the brake. The Cessna is a different story and much harder for me. I am not that tall and have short legs so my seat is very forward and raised to see over the dash. I have to concentrate on keeping my ankle flexed fully back when landing so I don’t hit the toe brakes this is harder in large/high boots. Once again I keep my feet just off the floor heels on rudder with toes on the pedal for a quick tap if needed (it has saved me more than once) I prefer to use a low quarter walking shoe with the Cessna and carry bunny boots if needed. High top hiking boots also work well If I leave the tops laced loose. I am also working on having the seat lower to have a better leg angle. Every plane is different so just as you would check full movement of the stick/yoke make sure you have full and INDEPENDENT rudder/ brake control. If you can’t wear the boot/shoe required to walk out due to control issues then at least keep them in the plane. So the answer is yes shoes matter but it depend on several factors.
Denny

DENNY wrote:Several factors are involved with proper foot gear. First off is the aircraft equipped with heel or toe brakes? How much ankle flexion is required to apply full rudder or brake with out applying the other. What is the seat hight? What is the pilots leg length and ankle flexibility. This is a backcountry site so being able to instantly tap a brake without shifting the foot to the brake pedal is important for control on a lot of strips/conditions. For myself anything seems to work fine in the cub. I land duck foot with my heel on the brake and toe on the rudder Hiking boots/bunny boots have enough flexibility to apply full rudder without applying the brake. The heel always stays on the brake and I can apply them quickly. I feel this is an important thing that instructors fail to point out to students that learn in toe brakes. They land with foot straight up and have to move the heel back and inboard to apply the brake. The Cessna is a different story and much harder for me. I am not that tall and have short legs so my seat is very forward and raised to see over the dash. I have to concentrate on keeping my ankle flexed fully back when landing so I don’t hit the toe brakes this is harder in large/high boots. Once again I keep my feet just off the floor heels on rudder with toes on the pedal for a quick tap if needed (it has saved me more than once) I prefer to use a low quarter walking shoe with the Cessna and carry bunny boots if needed. High top hiking boots also work well If I leave the tops laced loose. I am also working on having the seat lower to have a better leg angle. Every plane is different so just as you would check full movement of the stick/yoke make sure you have full and INDEPENDENT rudder/ brake control. If you can’t wear the boot/shoe required to walk out due to control issues then at least keep them in the plane. So the answer is yes shoes matter but it depend on several factors.
Denny

Denny,

I teach pilots in Cessnas to keep their feet slid waaaay down on the pedals, so that the toes of boots are on the bottom of the pedals, and no more. If you need brake, it’s easy to slide a foot up and press. If you need brake any quicker than you can accomplish that, you aren’t paying attention. That was Tom Wardleigh’s program and it works.

MTV

DENNY wrote:.... The Cessna is a different story and much harder for me. I am not that tall and have short legs so my seat is very forward and raised to see over the dash. I have to concentrate on keeping my ankle flexed fully back when landing so I don’t hit the toe brakes this is harder in large/high boots......

I had this same sort of issue with my 180.
Strange that I didn't have that issue in my old 170, which had the same rudder pedals,
but the 180 pedals angle might be a bit different.
Anyway, this cheap & easy mod fixed the problem.

hotrod180 wrote:

DENNY wrote:.... The Cessna is a different story and much harder for me. I am not that tall and have short legs so my seat is very forward and raised to see over the dash. I have to concentrate on keeping my ankle flexed fully back when landing so I don’t hit the toe brakes this is harder in large/high boots......

I had this same sort of issue with my 180.
Strange that I didn't have that issue in my old 170, which had the same rudder pedals,
but the 180 pedals angle might be a bit different.
Anyway, this cheap & easy mod fixed the problem.

The pedals in my old 170B were worn out, where they pivot. We contacted Cessna parts, while I held my breath. Turns out the only pedals they still stocked were the very late model pedals, which are made from some sort of high density plastic, with bushings. Coincidentally, the pedal shape is very similar to what you show here.

I REALLY liked those pedals. The good news was, at that time, a full set of four cost me $85. I figured there was some sort of mistake in pricing, but didn't bring it up. I've thought about buying a set for my current ride.

MTV

mtv wrote:

DENNY wrote:Several factors are involved with proper foot gear. First off is the aircraft equipped with heel or toe brakes? How much ankle flexion is required to apply full rudder or brake with out applying the other. What is the seat hight? What is the pilots leg length and ankle flexibility. This is a backcountry site so being able to instantly tap a brake without shifting the foot to the brake pedal is important for control on a lot of strips/conditions. For myself anything seems to work fine in the cub. I land duck foot with my heel on the brake and toe on the rudder Hiking boots/bunny boots have enough flexibility to apply full rudder without applying the brake. The heel always stays on the brake and I can apply them quickly. I feel this is an important thing that instructors fail to point out to students that learn in toe brakes. They land with foot straight up and have to move the heel back and inboard to apply the brake. The Cessna is a different story and much harder for me. I am not that tall and have short legs so my seat is very forward and raised to see over the dash. I have to concentrate on keeping my ankle flexed fully back when landing so I don’t hit the toe brakes this is harder in large/high boots. Once again I keep my feet just off the floor heels on rudder with toes on the pedal for a quick tap if needed (it has saved me more than once) I prefer to use a low quarter walking shoe with the Cessna and carry bunny boots if needed. High top hiking boots also work well If I leave the tops laced loose. I am also working on having the seat lower to have a better leg angle. Every plane is different so just as you would check full movement of the stick/yoke make sure you have full and INDEPENDENT rudder/ brake control. If you can’t wear the boot/shoe required to walk out due to control issues then at least keep them in the plane. So the answer is yes shoes matter but it depend on several factors.
Denny

Denny,

I teach pilots in Cessnas to keep their feet slid waaaay down on the pedals, so that the toes of boots are on the bottom of the pedals, and no more. If you need brake, it’s easy to slide a foot up and press. If you need brake any quicker than you can accomplish that, you aren’t paying attention. That was Tom Wardleigh’s program and it works.

MTV

I tried that as did one of the other owners, trying to get the boot to slide up when you have the rudder to the stop just does not work smooth enough for us in windy conditions. My 180 time is low so I am sure I am behind the plane in general . Putting the blocks on the lower pedal would solve the issue if you can get the IA to approve.
Denny

DENNY wrote:

mtv wrote:

DENNY wrote:Several factors are involved with proper foot gear. First off is the aircraft equipped with heel or toe brakes? How much ankle flexion is required to apply full rudder or brake with out applying the other. What is the seat hight? What is the pilots leg length and ankle flexibility. This is a backcountry site so being able to instantly tap a brake without shifting the foot to the brake pedal is important for control on a lot of strips/conditions. For myself anything seems to work fine in the cub. I land duck foot with my heel on the brake and toe on the rudder Hiking boots/bunny boots have enough flexibility to apply full rudder without applying the brake. The heel always stays on the brake and I can apply them quickly. I feel this is an important thing that instructors fail to point out to students that learn in toe brakes. They land with foot straight up and have to move the heel back and inboard to apply the brake. The Cessna is a different story and much harder for me. I am not that tall and have short legs so my seat is very forward and raised to see over the dash. I have to concentrate on keeping my ankle flexed fully back when landing so I don’t hit the toe brakes this is harder in large/high boots. Once again I keep my feet just off the floor heels on rudder with toes on the pedal for a quick tap if needed (it has saved me more than once) I prefer to use a low quarter walking shoe with the Cessna and carry bunny boots if needed. High top hiking boots also work well If I leave the tops laced loose. I am also working on having the seat lower to have a better leg angle. Every plane is different so just as you would check full movement of the stick/yoke make sure you have full and INDEPENDENT rudder/ brake control. If you can’t wear the boot/shoe required to walk out due to control issues then at least keep them in the plane. So the answer is yes shoes matter but it depend on several factors.
Denny

Denny,

I teach pilots in Cessnas to keep their feet slid waaaay down on the pedals, so that the toes of boots are on the bottom of the pedals, and no more. If you need brake, it’s easy to slide a foot up and press. If you need brake any quicker than you can accomplish that, you aren’t paying attention. That was Tom Wardleigh’s program and it works.

MTV

I tried that as did one of the other owners, trying to get the boot to slide up when you have the rudder to the stop just does not work smooth enough for us in windy conditions. My 180 time is low so I am sure I am behind the plane in general . Putting the blocks on the lower pedal would solve the issue if you can get the IA to approve.
Denny

Check with Cessna parts for the late model pedals. Mine were worn beyond use, at least the pilot's pedals. The new versions were cheap then. Who knows, but if you find out, let us know, they really are a much better shape than the old style, very similar to the photo.

MTV

mtv wrote:.....The pedals in my old 170B were worn out, where they pivot. We contacted Cessna parts, while I held my breath. Turns out the only pedals they still stocked were the very late model pedals, which are made from some sort of high density plastic, with bushings. Coincidentally, the pedal shape is very similar to what you show here.
I REALLY liked those pedals. The good news was, at that time, a full set of four cost me $85. I figured there was some sort of mistake in pricing, but didn't bring it up. I've thought about buying a set for my current ride. MTV

Judging from what I hear about prices for genuine Cessna parts,
I'm gonna guess they've gone up astronomically--
I dunno who makes them, but Spruce has these pedals for $231.95 each:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... erPade.php

BTW I've seen several people looking for rudder pedal extensions,
FWIW Spruce has several versions of those too:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... _rpe_c.php

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... rpe_co.php

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... rpe_cn.php

Those from Spruce look close to what I got from Cessna.

Expensive? What’s a ground loop cost?

MTV

I’ve found I can’t fly in anything with a heel. Always flew in tennis type shoes and one day I jumped in the Maule with a set of work boots on and while it was uneventful, I just didn’t have the feel I wanted.

Fast forward to getting a Cub and found I could fly heel brakes with basically any type of footgear. Now that I’m back in a Wagon, back to something without a heel.

When I was a kid I remember many of the air taxi drivers (during the summer months) wore cowboy boots. So naturally when I became an air taxi pilot that’s what I wore. Pretty comfortable in any plane we had and they wore great amongst the gravel, sand and mud. Till winter arrived then it was bunny boots or sorels.

Now days I just force myself to fly in what keeps my feet warm and dry. Cub with those gigantic Baffin Boots took a bit to get used to but it works. Otherwise it’s Extra Tuffs.

I absolutely LOVE flying barefoot in summer in my 170. However, for the reasons and risks MTV mentions, I try avoid doing it when I can resist the temptation, but dang I sure love it when I succumb. Nothing like a satisfying landing and tossing the flip flops out the door and hopping out on top of them after shut down.

Since we are getting close to a$$ deep in snow around here, I flew the other day in Air Force extreme cold type mukluks for the first time. Probably best type of winter boot I have ever used while flying. Very flexible and more like having a huge tennis type show on verses a solid soul type.

WWhunter wrote:Since we are getting close to a$$ deep in snow around here, I flew the other day in Air Force extreme cold type mukluks for the first time. Probably best type of winter boot I have ever used while flying. Very flexible and more like having a huge tennis type show on verses a solid soul type.

I agree. They’re my favorite in pretty cold weather and where I’m not very apt to put my foot in water.

MTV

I've been doing my outdoor chores in Columbia Bugaboot III's that I got locally for $99. They're comfy and warm and I usually wear them with a wool ski sock, but there's room for a thicker sock for sure. They're light and feel like an athletic shoe. I have yet to stand around on ice for hours so we'll see how that goes but I've driven the car in them and they work great. Flying would be easy.

I still stand by the Salomon XA Pro 3D waterproof models. I wear mine through the snow and cold and wet all the time, but they're low so snow above the ankle doesn't work.

Back at the start of the thread the idea of "dress for the crash" was mentioned. And that's something I almost always do. But it's -16C here in Chicago today and I'll be wearing shoes I can feel the peddles with (which for me, with 800 hours in this plane, is a pair of normal street shoes) rather than the boots I will have sitting next to me. Even when simply walking in my boots I regularly drag a toe or scuff a heal. They are big and bulky and insulate my feet not just from the cold, but from any meaningful sensation of whatever surface I'm walking on. Not so good for trying to not crash the plane to begin with.