So I am curious if anyone has either looked at this or installed one: http://www.electroair.net/stc_ignition_kit2.html

Its pricey, but if the fuel savings and performance benefits claimed work out, well, it might make sense. Seems to me ditching one or both magnetos for electronic ignition is the future, especially in these time of expensive fuel.

I'd love to hear what the peanut gallery has to say. I am tempted for my Skywagon.

Brad

That's cool. If you could save 15% fuel it's paid for in 600 hours or so. I wonder what the ongoing maintenance costs are?

I listened to the hype at OSH last year, thinking about it for my O-360 Lycoming. Taking into account 9-10 hours of labor to install plus the cost, and assuming no maintenance issues ever, I figured about the same--maybe 600 hours to break even. I tend to disbelieve the power/economy arguments, only because I'm by nature a bit suspicious of such claims. Not from Missouri, but it would have to show me the results.

Hard to say if it's worth it, but I agree it's the wave of the future.

Cary

They have had these on expenertals since the early 90's primarily on lycomings . The 550 powered Curris electronic /fdec - works good at a $$$$ cost.

So, this unit only replaces one of the magnetos?

I don't think I would be interested until I could replace both magnetos with an electronic ignition.

I pre-ordered one for my IO-520D last year at the Trade Show in Anchorage.
I got tired of calling asking what was going on and why I haven't got a call saying it's ready to ship.
I suspect they are having problems.
My suspicion is overheating problems.
I never could get a straight answer when I asked about heating issues.

After having all this time to think about it, I've decided to stick with the good old "Tried and True" equipment

My $.02

The flying club I used to be on the board of directors just out one on their overhauled aircraft that I helped them pick up from Western Skyways last week. For the time being, you can only have one electronic mag. It will be interesting to see what they find out. The fuel burns that they have so far related to me are the same it's always burned.

My biggest concern would be ease of replacement or repair if I had a problem at some random airport on a trip. I'm sure it's going to be easier to find a mechanic to work on or replace a traditional mag than one that has any experience with electronic mags. And such a place is much more likely to have a traditional mag on hand to swap out as opposed to being able to repair/replace the electronic mag. But, with no moving parts, maybe they will prove to be trouble free.

Very recently I needed a complete overhaul on my O320-E2D in my C172. I had been reading about the Electronic ignition from Electroair and decided to include the unit in the overhaul.

I did some upgrades on the engine OH (polishing the ports, balancing some of the parts, etc) mostly minor.

The electronic ignition was shipped separately (direct from Electroair.) and consisted of four major parts. The parts were the controller, the coil pack, the MAG timing housing and the MAP sensor.

The instructions and manuals came in the form of a thumb drive and were very complete and informative.

Actual install time was approximately 3 hours and was quite simple. There was a few hours spent studying the instructions and thinking through where I wanted to install each item. (The coil pack and the MAG timing has to be in the engine compartment and the MAP sensor and the controller has to be away from the heat behind the firewall (somewhere behind the instrument panel). I also had to add a manifold pressure line. To obtain maximum performance the MAP unit adjusts for altitude and manifold pressure. This was quite easy since the cylinders had a port that could be used.

I also re-installed a PowerFlow tuned exhaust that I had previously had on the plane.

Before the OH and install of the EIS (Electric Ignition System), my climb was approx: 950-1000 fpm from SL to 4500 Feet at 100kts airspeed.
Cruise speed at 2350 RMP was 120 kts
Fuel burn at these settings averaged 8.5 gph
If I put the rpm to 2700 I could get a cruise speed of 125-127kts with a fuel burn of 9.5 gph.

After OH and EIS install my climb was approx 1100-1300 fpm from SL to 3500 feet and 100 kts airspeed.
Cruise speed at 2350 rpm was 124kts.
Fuel burn averaged 7.3 gph
If I put the rpm to 2700 I could get a cruise speed of 127-132 kts. with a fuel burn of 7.8gph.

The above figures were over the first 30 hours of flight with the new system.

Even with the rpm at 2500 rpm I had half the throttle left. At 2500 rpm in cruise you could push the throttle in and feel a very strong power increase and you could easily go over redline.

Since this seemed like a waste of power, I changed the pitch on the propeller from 53 inches to 57 inches.

The last 15 hours (after re pitching prop):
Climb speed 1000 fpm at 95kts from SL to 4000ft
Cruise speed 2300 rpm is 125kts
Fuel burn averaged 6.7 gph

It also should be noted, the higher I fly, the lower the fuel burn. In one 3 hour segment flying above 6000 ft mostly, cruising at 2250-2300rpm/124kts, the fuel burn was 6.2 gph.

This is still a new system so there might be some changes over time. I can report later if there is any.

The maintenance is minimal. It mainly consists of inspecting all terminals, connections and gaskets each annual and calls for replacement of the plug wires each 1000 hours.

At engine OH, it is recommended that the MAG timing housing be replaced.

The EIS also calls for a stronger plug as there is no spark per se, it is a 20 degree burn on both the compression and exhaust stroke. For my engine it is the Champion REM37BY gaped to .030-.036. This is only for the four plugs on the EIS unit. The plugs on the remaining magnito are the same.

At 30 hours I checked the plugs on both systems. There was no noticeable wear and there was just a medium gray ash.

I hope this helps

Hawk

Do you run the mag switch in "both" or just on the EIS?

I left the key switch alone and intact. I did install a toggle switch for the EIS. Reasoning behind this: If something went wrong with the EIS, I could put a magneto back in, taking about 15 minutes (Plus the magneto is easily available, new parts for the EIS would have to be ordered and would take several days or maybe a couple weeks (unknown). The wiring from the key switch to the magneto is isolated but intact.

.

Hawk. So when your flying, is the engine running off both the mag and EIS? Or just off 4 plugs and the EIS? Just curious how it works with one set of plugs running off of variable timing, and one off the fixed timing mag.

I could run it off either or both. I choose to run it off both. It runs just fine running off of the EIS alone. Just a note , when I do a run up when I turn off the magneto, you see very little drop in rpm. when I turn off the EIS, there is about 100 rpm drop.

As of now, I have no complaints at all.

Hawk

Just thinking out loud here (always risky)...

The engine doesn't care what creates the spark - provided it happens at the right moment. Conventional mags (timed right) should do this for a certain RPM and power setting equally as well electric mags. So variable spark timing would only add any value at part-power operation.

So, suppose for arguments sake you timed your mags perfectly for your cruise power setting - where is the EI getting these supposed power increases / fuel savings from....??

I appreciate that lots of mags are poorly timed; and manufacturer timing settings may be to account for maximum RPM, not cruise.

Seems like EFI + EI would be a much more valuable addition than just EI alone.

Battson wrote:Just thinking out loud here (always risky)...

The engine doesn't care what creates the spark - provided it happens at the right moment. Conventional mags (timed right) should do this for a certain RPM and power setting equally as well electric mags. So variable spark timing would only add any value at part-power operation.

So, suppose for arguments sake you timed your mags perfectly for your cruise power setting - where is the EI getting these supposed power increases / fuel savings from....??

I appreciate that lots of mags are poorly timed; and manufacturer timing settings may be to account for maximum RPM, not cruise.

Seems like EFI + EI would be a much more valuable addition than just EI alone.

If you did that then you'd encounter detonation at WOT.

Optimized part throttle spark advance is way earlier than optimized WOT spark advance. Fixed timing mags are set to ensure safe maximum performance at WOT and every other power setting suffers inefficiency.

CamTom12 wrote:
If you did that then you'd encounter detonation at WOT.

Optimized part throttle spark advance is way earlier than optimized WOT spark advance. Fixed timing mags are set to ensure safe maximum performance at WOT and every other power setting suffers inefficiency.

Yes, as I say - accounting for full RPM would be the killer for that assumption.
I think it'd be RPM which varies the necessary timing, rather than throttle setting? Unless you're thinking about a fixed pitch prop.

But my point was more about this - where has the magic "extra power" come from during climb out? Sorry - I'll try to explain myself properly this time.
Assuming you climb out at full power applied, how is the rate of climb supposed to increase with EI vs mags? If anything the EI is often heavier overall in experimentals, as it typically warrants a redundant battery. The efficiency gains from adjusting to the (small) variations in MAP at low level can't be all that significant?

And in terms of the fuel savings, all those numbers quoted above look like ROP numbers? Would you not simply be better to run LOP, I can't image the saving would be so dramatic in that case?

It really would be interesting to try. Elevations could play a factor in timing. Manufacturer specs play a big factor. If its timed to the manufacturer specs they will be on the very safe side. I know its different then an airplane, but I know that when I advanced the timing on my sled 2.5 degrees it made a huge difference in power. If the EI ran closer to max power/best fuel consumption, then it would explain the better power/fuel economy. Not for sure, just guessing.

Yeah I have heard of people timing for, say, 22 degrees BTDC instead of the bog-standard 25 IIRC. I guess that has something to do with optimising the timing.

Ya. It would be interesting to see what exactly the EI sets the timing too... then we'd know the answer I suppose!

This is from the EIS Instalation Manuel, it may answer some of your questions:

The EIS differs from standard magneto systems in one very
significant way: TIMING. In a magneto, timing is permanently set; the EIS adjusts timing (or
spark advance) based on RPM and manifold pressure. This ability to adjust the spark advance
allows the EIS to determine the optimum timing setting which produces the most power with
the least fuel.
EIS Spark Advance (Timing) = Mechanical Advance
+ RPM Advance + Vacuum Advance
The mechanical advance is set during the installation of the EIS timing housing or crankshaft
sensor. This setting is usually zero degrees of TDC.

The final component for the total amount of timing comes from the vacuum advance, or
Manifold Pressure Sensor. The manifold pressure is sensed and calculated in to the total
spark advance. These two measurements are used together to determine the most efficient
timing setting for the engine. The MAP Sensor will add a maximum of 15” of advance to the
total Spark Advance.

A "Direct Fire" ignition fires the spark plugs directly from the coils and not through a distributor
cap and rotor. This is accomplished by using multiple coils, each with two spark terminals. The
coil terminals are connected to the spark plugs, allowing one cylinder to fire on compression
while its companion cylinder fires simultaneously on exhaust. Open spark gaps in the rotor and
cap are eliminated, making wear and moisture problems a thing of the past.
What sets the Electroair Ignition System (EIS) apart is the ability to charge multiple ignition
coils at the same time. This increased dwell time means that full spark energy is available over
the entire RPM range (up to 9600 RPM at 12 volts). Unlike capacitive discharge systems that
only put out one very short spark, the EIS puts out a full energy, long burning spark at your
highest and most critical engine speeds. Long burn times assure effective burning of even lean
fuel mixtures.
The brain of the EIS includes dual digital microprocessors using patented spark algorithms,
which takes the electrical signal from the crankshaft (or mag timing housing) sensor, identifies
top-dead center and then keeps track of the remaining rotation. The EIS determines engine
speed and computes the spark advance using the settings pre-set at the factory for your
engine as a base-line. Settings from the factory are preset for the engine’s certified placarded
timing. Additionally, the EIS receives engine manifold pressure information and advances the
ignition to compensate for altitude and throttle position.

Beyond the synchronization and firing the plugs at the correct advance angle, the EIS also
computes the exact dwell time to produce 9 amps of coil current. Coil charging is dynamically
measured, so changes in RPM, battery voltage, or temperature are accounted for on every
spark. This corrects any errors that are caused by battery voltage or coil temperature changes
and insures maximum spark energy.

The EIS uses a single, high resolution, 60-minus-2 tooth crank trigger wheel. This affords
resolution unheard of in any other electronic ignition available today, offering spark accuracy of
¼ degree of crankshaft rotation.

In summary, your Electroair EIS delivers more power because:
· Spark timing is precisely controlled under all conditions, including rapid engine
acceleration.
· Longer dwell time and a better flame front allow the engine to run better on lean and
lean of peak mixture settings.
· Accurate spark timing allows sustained engine operation closer to peak power timing.
· 100% spark energy up to 9600 RPM on 6 cylinder and 12,000 RPM on 4 cylinder
applications (at 12 volts).
· Long spark duration (typical durations of approximately 25 degrees)!· Built-in timing computer
· No power draining magnetos to drive
· No moving parts to wear out or replace"

I hope this helps,

Hawk

As an after thought, if you go to : http://www.electroair.net/index.html . Hit tech support. Then hit Installation Instructions. Hit EIS-41000 Installation Manual. You can look through the manual for all the tech stuff that you might have questions on.

Hawk